Feeding Live Foods

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csababubbles

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Nov 7, 2007
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661
Blackworms

Lee, I re-read your nutrition stickie and you make a note that live black worms are not for marine fish but more suited to fresh water fish. I have also read many posts where people (for example PaulB) give their opinion that it is a good food to feed. I am not intending to start any kind of debate on that topic but rather have a question for you if someone were to decide to occasionally feed blackworms and bloodworms....what would be the "best" way to feed these to our fish that reduces the risk of introducing diseases and unwanted organisms? For example, I see live black worms at my local fish store that has them in little cups of water. Would it be sufficient to simply rinse the worms in freshwater before feeding?

Thanks!
 
A rinse off will handle all exterior concerns. Internally, the worms may contain intestinal toxins, parasites, etc. Most however can't get past the fish's digestive track.
 
Hello there Lee
Csababubbles, those blackworms you see in those little cups in a store are the worms I am talking about. Lee is correct that fresh water foods should not be given exclusively to marine fish but I exempt worms. Live black worms are fresh water creatures so any paracites they may harbor would not survive in salt water. As for diseases, any live food could possably transmit diseases to your fish but it is less likely for a fresh water animal to transmit a disease to a salt water animal. Lee may have an opinion on that.
As for the safety of them all I can say is that I have been feeding them to fish since about 1968.
I have been feeding them to my salt water fish almost every day since about 1973.
I feed them a few at a time with a baster looking thing. They only live about 15 seconds in salt water.
As for bloodworms, they are not really worms but insect larvae and not very nutritious. They look like worms and are sold as such.
All the fish that I have ever bred were put into breeding condition by feeding black worms. These worms should not constitute the entire diet because fish like them so they may not take any other food.
Have fun.
paul
 
I would argue that bloodworms are in fact pretty nutritious. I breed caudates(tailed amphibians) and as soon as larvae can eat blackworms for a week or 2, almost all aquatic species can live exlusively on frozen bloodworms. There are some brands that are just plain poor quality, but for the most part I have had nothing but success with bloodworms. Blackworms are better, but more work and $$.
 
Jeffnewt, that is interesting, If they work for you thats a good thing. I know that blackworms have Omega 3 oils almost like fish oil but I don't think insect larva has any. Of course I never ate any of them and I may be wrong.
Have a great day.
Paul
 
Humans often apply human emotion and speculation to scientific issues. Nutrition is one such topic. One of the most absurd things I've read on the Internet is, 'My fish likes it, so it must be good.' These people seem to forget that human children like ice cream and would/could consume it to excess. Is that good for their overall health? Fat, protein, and sugar?

What is definitive is the analysis of the food to be fed, compared to the list of what is needed by the lifeform being fed the food. When you have those two lists, you may compare them side by side to determine if you have a reasonable match, or not.

Then, the excess components/contents on the food list has to be identified as to whether or not it creates harm or has a downside to the lifeform consuming it.

After this approach one may definitively announce what is and is not appropriate and, at the same time, nutritious.

This is what has been done with brine shrimp. If you see the side by side lists, you'll find that brine shrimp have little nutritional value per unit of measure than sea foods marine fishes normally eat. There is no direct harm, but there is a downside. The downside is that the fish are eating but not getting proper nutrition.

Paul,

Along similar lines pointed out above is using a known (more or less) fact to rationalize a food. The statement that freshwater micro life can't live in saltwater is true (with some exceptions), but how does that statement apply to the feeding of freshwater worms to marine fishes? Is your assumption that the micro life inside the worm is exposed to saltwater. It isn’t. That micro life produces toxins in the worm which is fine for the worm. Is it okay for the fish?

It is also a concern on what kinds of foods the worm (or any non-sea based live food) has been eating, since that will still be in the worm at the time of feeding. This is what lends some nutritional value to spriulina-fed brine shrimp, for instance. Myself, I like reducing the contents of such live freshwater/land foods by not feeding them until their digestive track is fairly empty before feeding. Raising your own, there is some control over this. Or buying from a source is probably good too, since the source is probably not feeding them or the food has not eaten for up to a few days.

 
Lee I am glad you responded. I can see your thoughts about a disease organism living in a worm possably being transmitted to a fish but as I said I believe it is a remote possability. It is also true that a disease living in a brine shrimp or feeder guppy could be transmitted.
I think it is less of a risk of a disease being transmitted from a fresh water fish to a salt water animal. I diden't say it was impossable.

As for diseases, any live food could possably transmit diseases to your fish but it is less likely for a fresh water animal to transmit a disease to a salt water animal.

I said it was less likely. There are many diseases that attack the outside of a fish like funguses or paracites that would not be able to survive in a saline envirnment.
I do not recommend worms as one of the best foods available lightly.
I also did not read it on the net or in a book. I have done my own research and I think I have studied and used live black worms longer than any medication has been studied. Medications are considered safe after they have been used in trials for years with few side effects. I have been feeding worms to fish for decades, not just occasionally, but almost every day. I have not lost a single fish to a disease in maybe fifteen years, I can't even remember the last one. But I have spawned and am still spawning many fish. My oldest one died by accident at 18 years of age.
I think the benefits of live blackworms far outweigh any minor risks.
Our government just recalled millions of pounds of beef. It is a minor risk to eat beef but we eat it because of the benefits.
My reasoning on the benefits of live worms is the fact that when a fish eats a worm, it eats the entire worm including the guts where most of the oils are. Worms, like fish have no fats, just oils. While I am not a researcher and have no written facts of the benefits of blackworms I have read about earthworms which are supposed to be a very healthy food loaded with Omega 3 oils, vitamin D and A.
As you know the diet of most fish in the sea is whole fish. The guts of the fish, mainly the liver is where the oils are found. As aquarists it is difficult to find apropriate sized whole fresh fish to feed out fish. IMO worms are the next best thing.
I do keep a large supply of worms on hand and I do feed them. I think you are correct that we don't know what the worms were eating before we fed them to our fish. I also think it is a mistake to keep them in the refrigerator which would almost stop their metabolism keeping them from eliminating whatever is in their intestines. I keep them well fed,in shallow water with an airstone where they live indefinately and seem healthy. I can't say that fish "Like" worms or that they "like" anything but I do know that my fish will practically jump out of the water to get them.
My last moorish Idol died of an accident after almost five years with many of my fish. Five years old is not great by any stretch of the imagination but it is considered old by moorish Idol standards. It was fed blackworms almost every day which could have contributed to his lifespan.
Anyway, Lee, I respect your opinion and thank you for responding.
Take care.
Paul
 
By the way, this is what I use to feed the worms to the fish with. I use this to feed everything, I even feed the worms with it.
plasticbulb.jpg
 
I'm glad you responded Paul. The point I'm making is not so much disease as the toxins. I posted above that the digestive track of the fish will handle the lifeforms. What's left is the toxins.
 
Lee, yes I agree it is best to keep the live food a while to flush out any possable toxins.
It is common practice to keep these worms cold but I think it is better to keep them alive and eating to flush them out. I feed them cheap coral food, pellets, flakes or anything else I have around that I think they will eat.
Take care.
Paul
 
I think your approach is very good. I keep mine at room temp, rinsing them in spring water twice/day. I begin to use them 3 days after I am sure when they last ate. I feed them to my fishes when I can't get a fish to eat, or about once every 2-3 months to the regulars. :)
 
Sounds goog to me. I have them in about an inch of water, they seem to like to stick their heads out occasionally. I also keep an airstone in there. I think the secret is to not clean their container so some bacteria grow on the sides. I only have to change the water weekly and it stays very clean. I never find a dead worm, unless they eat the dead ones.
Take care we are in a snow storm here now and I have to go out to shovel.
Paul
 
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