"Feeding" sps

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steven11

Somethingotherthannormal!
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
823
Location
Auburn, Wa.
So if someone told you that the coral "food" that we buy, among otherthings, was a waste of money. Would you believe them? I had this clown, :evil: , at Seamax tell me that the polyp extention that I see on my sps is just a stimulation response and not a "feeding" response. Also that active feeding only accounts for 2% of the corals energy intake and photosynthises accounts for the other 98% of the corals "energy." I liked hearing this considering coral frenzy and coral foods of the like are not cheap. Is he feeding me a line of crap?
 
IMHO, Direct feeding of SPS (or soft corals) is questionable at best when one factors in the harm from added polution.
LPS is a different matter. Though not necessary, they will show visible results.
 
i use oyster feast works like a champ. feeds all my corals in my tank. my clam even looks like its inhaling it.
 
i know what clams need i simply stated that it "looked" like not that it was! what works for me may not work for others. im just giving examples of what has worked for me
 
Clams are good filters!! A lot of people use them to help reduce nitrates. No feeding really required as Mike suggested. Actually never heard of anyone feeding their clams.
 
i know what clams need i simply stated that it "looked" like not that it was! what works for me may not work for others. im just giving examples of what has worked for me

Titan, that is exactly why I ask the question. I currently have oyster and phyto feast in my fridge. They are not cheap as you know, so if they are no real benefit to the tank, why are we buying them? There is an adverse effect of these products as well. We are dumping organics into the water. So in theory, we are not only wasting money on the product itself but also using extra salt doing water changes to keep the quality up.
 
Titan, that is exactly why I ask the question. I currently have oyster and phyto feast in my fridge. They are not cheap as you know, so if they are no real benefit to the tank, why are we buying them? There is an adverse effect of these products as well. We are dumping organics into the water. So in theory, we are not only wasting money on the product itself but also using extra salt doing water changes to keep the quality up.

Something else to keep in mind. One of the reasons to have good flow in your tank is to keep waste/detritus in suspesion in the water column. Apart from doing this so that it can be filtered out, corals use it up as well so they feed off of the "waste" floating around in the water column. I use to throw in a bit of coral frezny once in a while in my tank, but not a whole lot. Didn't make much sense IMO with my setup. The corals seemed happy with what my tank provided (ie lighting, good water quality and trace elements, and whatever waste was circulating via the flow). My skimmer only seemed to go nuts when I "fed" my corals food like coral frenzy. Other than that, I'd be lucky if I got 1/4 cup of skimmate each day. Some days the foam never even made it to the collection cup. I have pictures saved of it running to show this. Didn't use any other means of filtration other than a skimmer either. I didn't even use sponges on my pumps to trap waste so all I could conclude with was what the skimmer didn't get, the corals used up. :)
 
So if someone told you that the coral "food" that we buy, among otherthings, was a waste of money. Would you believe them? I had this clown, :evil: , at Seamax tell me that the polyp extention that I see on my sps is just a stimulation response and not a "feeding" response. Also that active feeding only accounts for 2% of the corals energy intake and photosynthises accounts for the other 98% of the corals "energy." I liked hearing this considering coral frenzy and coral foods of the like are not cheap. Is he feeding me a line of crap?​

LOL sorry for the late reply Steven, it took me forever to find my clown costume, and I wanted to answer the post while wearing it :peace:

Ok so lets dig into it a bit. So you got two questions going on here, one is what folks in the hobby call polyp extension and the other feeding requirements, so lets tackle the polyp one first.

Polyp extension: So yes no matter what kind of coral you have polyp extension and thus retraction is just a stimulation responce. The coral polyp is used by the coral itself (varies between species and type) for alot of different things such as defence, aggresive offence, reproduction, feeding, sencing. So we never really know what is creating the coral to either extend or retract its polyps. Also this procedure can be in responce to a chemical reaction, these chemicals can come from prey, or chemicals from near by corals (off/def) or chemical stimulates set off by similar corals (perty time). Or it can be mechanical stimulas, such as something bumping into it or electrical stimulas. So you cant really look at polyp extension as the "Warm and Fuzzy" feeling that the coral must be happy, it could be a number of things or any combination of many things.

Feeding corals: This one is a pretty broad subject with all the differing types of corals out their, so I will just through out a general rule and then dig into SPS. SO the general rule I tell folks to follow is the "Tissue rule" . You can judge how much a coral needs out side source by how much tissue the coral has on it. So zoos are almost 100% tissue so you can then assume that they require alot of external food sources, on the opposite side of that is what we call SPS which only have a very tiny amount of tissue and thus require very little amounts of external food.

Ok SPS: SO as we know sps corals are very dependant on photosynthesis for the energy they require for all their processes. Basically thier zoox algae absorbs light protons and turn them into simple sugars and so on for transfer to the coral host. Studies show that up to 98% of their energy budget requirements are delivered to the corals via this process and the balance is supplimented through other means. SO lets look at this a little deeper. When any coral captures food they use what is called Nematocyst, which are basically barbed harpoons they shoot out and capture the food with, then they are able to retract this barb and then enclosed the hooked peice of food with in the polyp. So here is a picture of this Nemaocyst



Picture1.jpg


So as you can see this is a nasty device, but in a sps the Nematocyst is not very developed, as in it does not even have barbs and it cannot shoot out the barb from itself like. Corals that rely of caputre have highly advanced Nematocyst like pictured above and many thousands of them. So barbless Nematocysts, and the inablity to launch them makes this a device they do not rely on. So for a SPS coral to capture food it would have to have the food randomly land directly into its Septa (basically its mouth) and then stay their long enough for the coral to envelop it. So very little chance of live food to do this as they would just swim away, a peice of food/detritus?? possibly but very little at best, definately not something a critter that has lived for millions of years to rely on.

So do SPS cature food?? Yep they do it in two seperate manners. One is through direct absorbsion through the SW that flows between its tissue and it skeliton, but this is very very little and most of that is used to lay down the lattice structure of its skeliton. The second method accounts for as much as 4 to 7% of it energy intake. This process is called mucus netting, Corals release an amount of mucus from just beneath its Septa, this mucus is a mixture of DOC's, lipids, aminos and excess carbon that is not used by the corals, or junk food for microscopic critters. When the coral lays out this mucus it is immediately attacked by bacteria and similar other critters, also it will capture small particules that happen to land on it. It then retracts this mucus into its digestive tract and then begins to process it. Now this mucus can be put out if the polyps are extended or not.
So here are some studies if you need to verify:

Falkowski, PG, Dubinsky, Z, Muscatine, L, Porter, JW, Light and bioenergetics of a symbiotic coral. Bioscience, 1984, pp 705–709(34)

Muscatine, L. Porter, JW, Reef corals: mutualistic symbioses adapted to nutrient-poor environments. Bioscience, 1977, pp 454– 460(27)

Edmunds, PJ, Davies, SP, An energy budget for Porites porites (Scleractinia). Mar. Biol, 1986, pp 339– 347(92)


Ok so this brings us back to feeding sps. From looking at scientific studies and understanding the corals biology we can see that they derive a very small percentage of their food source from external feeding. We also can see that when it comes to capture of food they use a slime netting process and that process is random and is based when the coral has enough slime material produced to put it out, so their schedule not ours. Now when we feed various commercal products into our tank we know this comes at a price and this price (other the dollars) is nutrient loading in a system that is usually nutrient loaded to start with, so is it worth it?? For me no, the fact they produce up to 98% of their energy budget via photosynthesis and capture between 4 to 7% via slime netting. Also I know that I feed my fish and I know that they constantly poop and that they poop at least 90% of what they intake, I know that their is plenty of that detritus floating around in the tank at any given time to land on that slime, I also know that my tank is loaded with bacteria and they they will attack that slime on mass and that the coral is biological designed to digest bacteria very easy.



Anyway sorry for the long winded reply I am now going to take this clown nose off as I cant breath


Mojo
 
Mojo, you think that there is any possibility that a mixed reef would need to be fed?

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Sure you could feed any reef tank really, you just have to look at the needs/requirments and then match them up against what it gets naturally and what you would need to suppliment. So here is a couple of examples.

I have a SPS dominated tank with 5 or 6 medium fish. I would say with the ammount of food you feed the fish the detritus they produce should be more then enough to feed SPS type corals, remember also that the rock and sand will also produce food.

I have the same tank as above but with a few soft and/or lps in them. Then you need to look at how you are dealing with excess nutrients already. If you are fighting algae then its not a good idea to add a blanket of food into the tank for specific corals, so I would suggest trying to target feed the corals that require it, or beef up the filtration needed to remove it.

If you have a tank filled with lots of soft corals and lps then broadcast feeding should be the plan, so feed away.


One has to remember that products like Phytoplankton are basically Phosphate in a bottle, your LR and LS are already saturated with P, so where is it going to go?? algae. The same applies to most foods people add to thier tanks, so take the time and figure out what is the requirements and then what is already supplied.


Mojo
 
IMO My sps grow better and have better color with my system if i feed at least twice a week. I run a pretty big skimmer, large refugium, GFO and Carbon to deal with nutients i might add.

I fed oyster feast for a while and although the corals seemed to really respond well to it, it was so oily i quit using it and went back to feeding GoldenPearl 5-50 micron
 
Yea NAte and that is the concept, if you feel you want to feed just make sure you deal with the negative effects. SOmething to also concider for all is to try and enrich the food you feed you fish. All critters like fish/snails/crabs and so on only bind about 10 to 15% of what it intakes into its matrix, the rest gets pooped out, which is the detritus that corals love to feed on.

Mojo
 
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