First SW tank.. tons of dumb questions! Help a newb get started? :)

[janky]

This will be my first venture into SW, and unfortunately I only have a 12 g hex tank to work with. I'm optimistic I can make it into something exciting though, and learn a ton in the process! Right now I'm just cycling it with sand, crushed coral, and a lonely piece of live rock. I'll get more soon, but for now this is it.
I'm just dropping 4-5 drops of pure ammonia in, and testing...
Although I only have a freshwater master test kit (API). Can I use a freshwater kit? When I test NH3 it turns a milky cloudy kind of color, and its always a bold, neon green.

Here are some other questions I had; Any help/advice is greatly appreciated.

Is doing WC's at 20% every week sufficient? And does anyone have any tricks or anything for mounting the powerhead in a 5 g bucket to let the water mix sit/aerate over night? I've just been dropping it in but I noticed all the salt doesn't get mixed up properly. I usually give it a good stir before I dump it in.

- Do I need a powerhead in the hex?

- For stock we like Ocellaris Clowns, Firefish, Gobies of all sorts, shrimp, snail, crab, etc. Is there anything else that would fit in a 12? What are good nano sw fish that would get along with the clown/firefish/gobies? And would 1 of each of those be too much in our tank?

- What is the difference between mandarin dragonets and mandarin gobies? My gf is obsessed with them, but they seem hard (having to have a refugium, copepods, bigger tank, etc)

- I'd like to grow some corals. If I spend big bucks on a light fixture, I want to just go for the gold and get one that can grow anything so I don't have to worry about upgrading later. I see a lot of "VHO" and "IceCap" stuff on CL. Any good?

- What kind of light do I need to get for these? I guess the consensus is MH? Here's a pic of the light fixture on the tank:

 

[janky]

Also, I have some pictures but I can't post them till I hit 3 posts.
The light fixture on there now is flourescent I think? compact?
They're the long "tube" bulbs with the two prongs on them and you slide them in to the ballast and twist them in to place.
(sorry for the terrible description)

 

[Raamiah]

I'm sure others will chime in but I would try to get at least a 20 if you want clownfish. 12 really won't have room for any fish plus the smaller the tank the harder to maintain it. With 12 gallons you could get a few of the smaller gobies. Mandarins shouldn't be in anything smaller than a 30. I would consider tank size before looking at other equipment.

Yes you need powerhead(s) in almost any SW tank.

Mandarin gobies/dragonetts are the same fish

HTH

 

[1guydude]

+1 ull need a bigger tank if this is ur 1st sry just my pinion. Maybe a 26g bow or a 36bow? Thinking of space saver tanks?!?!Mandarins imo need a tank of at least a yr old. As do some nems and some sps imo. Leds are the way to go as far as lighting... A 12gal nano could have some cuc and 2 gobys maybe.1 shrimp lrg and 1 smaller shrimp like sexy shrimps... Ud be high bio levels right there i would think. The bigger the filter the better and keep up on maintence and watch ur salt level... ull want to top it off twice a day prob. Corals love parameters to b the same and the smaller the tank the more shift in parameter ull most likely have...Good luck and research and read over and over.HTHs im gonna stop now d

 

[jezzeaepi]

Howdy and welcome to the hobby. Ill give your Q's a shot:

Although I only have a freshwater master test kit (API). Can I use a freshwater kit? When I test NH3 it turns a milky cloudy kind of color, and its always a bold, neon green.

Freshwater test kits don't work at all for salt water. The readings they will give you will be completely meaningless. In addition, not all test kit companies are created equal. The cheap ones will give you test results that are almost as meaningless as the freshwater ones. I personally only use elos brand test kits, but they are a little more on the expensive side.

Is doing WC's at 20% every week sufficient? And does anyone have any tricks or anything for mounting the powerhead in a 5 g bucket to let the water mix sit/aerate over night? I've just been dropping it in but I noticed all the salt doesn't get mixed up properly. I usually give it a good stir before I dump it in.[/FONT]

20% water changes would be just fine for that size tank. In regards to making water however, what source water are you using? You don't want to use tap water because of all of the metals and contaminates that are in it. You want to use RO/DI water if possible. If you dont want to purchase your own unit, you can get purified water from places like your LFS, some grocery stores(though many don't maintain their purifiers very well), or distilled water from the grocery store(though some say there is a risk of copper being in this water, but I never had any problems).
Second, when mxiing your salt water, make sure you let the water heat up first to 75+ degrees, THEN add the salt. If you add the salt to cold water it will not mix properly(and you will notice things like white precipitate on your mixing container). As for making sure it mixes sufficiently with a powerhead, I just make sure and use a strong enough one. I use a ~250gph pump for mixing in a 5g bucket.

- Do I need a powerhead in the hex?

Yes. probably one in the 300-450gph range.

- For stock we like Ocellaris Clowns, Firefish, Gobies of all sorts, shrimp, snail, crab, etc. Is there anything else that would fit in a 12? What are good nano sw fish that would get along with the clown/firefish/gobies? And would 1 of each of those be too much in our tank?

For that size tank, I would stick with only two fish if you want them to be healthy long term. Success rate with fish is measured in the long term(3-5+ years), and IMHO you would be risking the long term health of your fish if you had more then 2. I would also only add one at a time. Maybe wait a month in between to allow your biosystem in the tank to slowly adjust to the fish one at a a time.

- What is the difference between mandarin dragonets and mandarin gobies? My gf is obsessed with them, but they seem hard (having to have a refugium, copepods, bigger tank, etc)

They are the same thing but please do not buy one of these fish for your tank. They are a difficult fish to keep based on their diet req's, and it is highly recommended that you have at least a 50g tank for the long term survival. I have read many many threads about success with these, and long term success only comes with a tank with enough live rock to sustain a large pod population.

- I'd like to grow some corals. If I spend big bucks on a light fixture, I want to just go for the gold and get one that can grow anything so I don't have to worry about upgrading later. I see a lot of "VHO" and "IceCap" stuff on CL. Any good?

I cant help you on this one, but LED is the way to go FOR SURE for that tank size. Higher powered lights like MH and even t5 will make the tank hot enough to where you will likely need a chiller. Fluorescent bulbswill do ok for soft corals, but if you want hard corals you will have to upgrade.



Good luck with the tank and welcome to RF.

Peace,
Jesse

 

[janky]

Thank you jezz (and everyone else)! I appreciate the insight.
I have a RO/DI kit. I'm using that for the water. Good point on heating it first, that's probably why the salt was precipitating out and not doing anything lol..

I wasn't planning on putting a mandarin in a tank that small, just inquiring about them. If the "gobies" and "dragonets" were different and the goby would fit, then I'd consider - but I still don't know enough about copepods/refugium/etc.

I appreciate the advice to get a big tank, but I simply can't at this point. We have 3 freshwater tanks and a breeder that are in operation and full of life right now. This is the only free tank I have for SW. The size sucks, IMO, because it limits us greatly on fish choices. I'm not worried about it being "harder" or anything like that... this is the same tank we learned freshwater on back in the day
I figure if I can learn it in a harder, more concentrated small tank, then a big one should be no probs later down the road!

If anything, I feel like a tank this size is really only suited for a nano reef kind of setup.
Eventually I want a lion/puffer sw - so I want to put in some work learning now, and if an opportunity presents itself to get another (huge) tank or whatever, then I'll look into that way later.

I'll do some digging on LEDs. Any that you guys recommend?

Are my coral choices going to be limited on size here as well, even if I have great lighting?

 

[Peppie]

There is a lot of really good information in the "STICKY" posts at the top of this forum page. IMO you should read them all.
They will help you better understand the salt hobby.

BTW The other tanks you have... Not long from now at least one of them WILL turn to salt. LOL

Good luck, and Welcome to RF

 

[janky]

BTW The other tanks you have... Not long from now at least one of them WILL turn to salt. LOL

There isn't a doubt in my mind... lol

Yep, Im piecing through the stickies as we speak!!!


Hey, another dumb ?
Is a HOB filter enough for the small tank? Or will I want to look into a skimmer or something like that? I'm not really too sure how sumps/refugiums/etc work or why people drill sw tanks and plumb them, etc etc

 

[Peppie]

A hang on back sump is a very good idea for a small tank. Save the money you would spend on a skimmer and invest it in a good light. A tank that small would run just as well with weekly water changes, and no skimmer. JMO

 

[IPisces]

This will be my first venture into SW,

And does anyone have any tricks or anything for mounting the powerhead in a 5 g bucket to let the water mix sit/aerate over night? I've just been dropping it in but I noticed all the salt doesn't get mixed up properly. I usually give it a good stir before I dump it in.[/FONT][/COLOR]

For stock we like Ocellaris Clowns, Firefish, Gobies of all sorts, shrimp, snail, crab, etc. Is there anything else that would fit in a 12? What are good nano fish that would get along with the clown/firefish/gobies? And would 1 of each of those be too much in our tank?

I'd like to grow some corals. If I spend big bucks on a light fixture, I want to just go for the gold and get one that can grow anything so I don't have to worry about upgrading later.

First off...welcome to reeffrontiers...good to have you here.

What I do to mix saltwater is, I have a water pump in the bottom of the container with a hose on it that I place the end of the hose in a filter sock that I attach to the inside of the containter and I dump the salt into the filter sock while the pump is running and leave it running for a couple hours. This way, salt doesnt settle on the bottom. I also have a heater in the container.

20-25% water changes weekly are great. If you are going to have fish in the tank, you should have a skimmer. However, good water changes and siphoning of detritus from the rocks and sandbed will work with a HOB filter. I have a 3 gal with no skimmer.

As much flow as possible with power heads to keep detritus and left over food from settling. When it settles, it causes most of the algae problems.

I have used the information here Saltwater Fish: Marine Aquarium Fish for Saltwater Aquariums to figure what size tank is good for certain fish. And/or what fish I could get for the size tank I have.

You dont want to have to upgrade later on lighting? Get an LED unit. Otherwise yeah MH w/T5 suppliment. The lighting you have sounds like T5 lights. compact fluorescents will have 4 pins at one end.

 

[NC2WA]

Janky,

welcome to RF

IMO, a skimmer or HOB filter is not needed for this small of a tank...doing regular water changes is sufficient for biological control..with this size tank, u are going to be limited in what fish or coral u can have..citron goby comes to mind..

I would recommend you read the following book:

Amazon.com: The Conscientious Marine Aquarist: A Commonsense Handbook for Successful Saltwater Hobbyists (Microcosm/T.F.H. Professional) (9781890087999): Robert M. Fenner, Matthew L. Wittenrich, Scott W. Michael, Alf Jacob Nilsen, Christopher Turk: B

It will answer a majority of your questions. I own this book and after 15+ yrs in the hobby, I still use it today as a reference.

 

[janky]

Awesome to have such useful info here!!

Ok, here's the tank;

and the light I was talking about;

Most of the bulbs on the market for 10g are 18" and this one has to be the bizarre size no one carries (12")

LED sounds like a good idea at this point, since this tank is more nano reef compatible than fowlr compatible...

Problem is, I'm a full time student on a budget, sooooo yeah. Cheap LED would be great!

 

[Derbird]

Welcome to the addiction

Have you looked at a Par 38 LED light? They are a LED unit you can put in any light fixture. You can get a top of the line one for about $100.

You can have lots of great corals in there and don't forget about the inverts! Some of the most interesting things in my tank are the shrimp, crabs, and feather dusters. Lots of interesting options.

Good luck with the build and keep those pic's coming

 

[Skimmy]

welcome!!!
i would suggest that you get a used hang on protein skimmer,
a CPR bakpak would b great for 12g and can be found used on reefing bords/CL for about $40-60.
or $130 new:
http://premiumaquatics.com/aquatic-supplies/CPR-BAKPAK.html

or you can get this combo for cheap too:
http://www.aquatraders.com/Odyssea-ProPack-Protein-Skimmer-p/43014.htm
http://premiumaquatics.com/aquatic-supplies/CPR-ASP1-1000.html

you could run a bag of carbon in the skimmer as well, depending upon the type you wind up with.
otherwise keep your hob filter and fill with high quality carbon in a media bag.
also you can hide your heater in most hob skimmers..

skimming and running carbon in a nano reef are absolutely paramount IMO,
because with the lack of water volume things chemically happen so fast in a nano,
that you want reliable filtration to help you,
as opposed to just hoping everything will be fine and relying on weekly water changes.
get the best test kits you can buy, elos is great,
and for elemental dosing in your nano reef get a high quality, simple, 2 part solution like the following:
BW-RCAP250 Premium Aquatics - BW-RCAP250 Aquarium Supplies
BW-RCBP250 Premium Aquatics - BW-RCBP250 Aquarium Supplies

from there just add iodine and amino acids and you'll have a basic dosing setup covered.
BW-COA60 Premium Aquatics - BW-COA60 Aquarium Supplies
BW-IOD250 Premium Aquatics - BW-IOD250 Aquarium Supplies

for a powerhead, I suggest one of the following:
T6025_000 Premium Aquatics - T6025_000 Aquarium Supplies
HY-P29251 Premium Aquatics - HY-P29251 Aquarium Supplies
in my 20g, i have a 1200 gph tunze powerhead, so NOT too much flow.
if you have uneaten food or detritus that just floats down and settles on your rockwork,
then you dont have nearly enough flow in your system.

and if you notice the par readings and size on this inexpensive LED fixture,
vs. the depth and size of your tank, it's perfect for your nano:

http://reefkoi.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20&products_id=2791

 

[senji]

nano skimmers are verry cheap aswell. as for the cpr i have 1 on my 20qt and is real finiky to get it set right. dont reccomend to any1 new to the sw tank.

 

[Skimmy]

nano skimmers are verry cheap aswell. as for the cpr i have 1 on my 20qt and is real finiky to get it set right. dont reccomend to any1 new to the sw tank.

on the contrary, its a great little skimmer, simple to adjust, and good for a noob,
although certain generation models are much better than others.

plus most nano skimmers suck, and they are internal, and meant for all in one nanos with a seperate filter back section.
which would be totally innapropriate for a 12g hex reef with such limited space.

 

[janky]

Thanks again for the info.
So I had another dumb ? I've always been afraid to ask lol... do the protein skimmers replace the hob filter, or run along side it?

And you're right, the 12 g hex leaves MINIMAL room for anything without looking cluttered. To be honest, I feel like the heater looks crappy in there as it is, so if I could hide that in a skimmer that'd be perfect

Everything seems to be within my budget except those LEDs lol. Maybe I'll have to save up for a light or ask for one for a birthday present or something

 

[Skimmy]

unfortunately it wouldnt be much cheaper to DIY an LED fixture,
but you would have more colors, and more watts for the same cost.

and no, the hob filter and hob skimmer do not replace one another...
you need one for carbon, one for skimming...
as i said though, some skimmers can accomodate a bag of carbon in them if done properly.
but , you prolly cant do both the heater and carbon in the skimmer. some skimmers, yes.

 

[janky]

Ok, so this tank is going to have tons of stuff hanging off of it lol. I need to see if I could trade somebody for a 10 g or some kind of corner/bowfront that's bigger for my tank + cash.
I really dislike the hex design, especially on something this small.

 

[Skimmy]

you can get a 10g topless glass cube for like $25 around here,
they are newish, and made by pennplax i believe. dunno where u live, but not expensive at all.
then, paint the back black to conceal pumps and wires as much as possible.

also, if you just went to petco or petsmart, you could buy 2 10-15g tanks dirt cheap,
then use one as a sump, and 1 for the main display, then all your gear can hide in the sump.
they have sales a couple times a year for 1$ a gallon tanks