Fish disease ID

[NaH2O]

Here is a quote from Terry on a similar topic:

I tend to prefer Praziquantel in the food, but without identifying which species of internal parasite we are dealing with medicating is based on a best guess. Soaking the foods heavily in garlic for a week or so will kill some internal parasites. The danger as I see it is in killing a really large worm or a really large population of worms all at once. The dead and decaying matter may kill the fish. Try soaking the foods in garlic first since the angel appears to be doing OK despite the worms. Most fish do have internal worms and they usually don't have a problem. Large worms is not good though.

Terry B

From the thread: My Blueface Angel has Internal Parasitic Worms

 

[steve-s]

Thanks Nikki, that's what I was referencing in the first place but Terry uses the phrase "will kill some" which does not come across as being a complete cure. Hence my hesitation.

Cheers
Steve

 

[NaH2O]

I completely understand. But, I wonder if a small amount were eliminated, then the fish could carry on? Terry says that most fish do have internal worms, so at what point do they become problematic? I imagine it depends on the type of worm and how bad the infestation is. One thing Terry mentioned about was the danger in killing a really large worm, or large population. Wouldn't using something like praziquantel kill a big population of worms? Just intersted in your thoughts

 

[albert]

As I understand we should be concerned not to kill too much worms at once. I guess this could be controlled by the amount/concentration in one time dosis. Relating to the use of praziquantel with food I found out the recommendation for Discus (freshwater): 4-5 mg of praziquantel should be mixed with 1 gram food and used during three days. Not sure if that dosis is suitable for saltwater fishes too.

 

[steve-s]

But, I wonder if a small amount were eliminated, then the fish could carry on? Terry says that most fish do have internal worms, so at what point do they become problematic? I imagine it depends on the type of worm and how bad the infestation is.

That was my feeling as well but not being 100% sure, did not want to make a solid recommendation on that alone. As far as I can see (in regards to an intestinal worm), if it reduces them, it should really eliminate them. The main concern I have is if they get into the organs or up forward of the gut. The garlic will only stem the tide not cure the issue.

Wouldn't using something like praziquantel kill a big population of worms? Just intersted in your thoughts

If you mean in the fish yes, but it would depend on the degree of the problem. If using garlic first as Terry suggests, it should reduce the problem slowly to where it can be eliminated with a follow up of Praziquantel in the feed. As always, in a QT.

Cheers
Steve

 

[steve-s]

As I understand we should be concerned not to kill too much worms at once. I guess this could be controlled by the amount/concentration in one time dosis.

The best means to control that would be a QT but barring that, using it in the feed as apposed to general treatment would greatly reduce that and is the prefered method of treatment.

Relating to the use of praziquantel with food I found out the recommendation for Discus (freshwater): 4-5 mg of praziquantel should be mixed with 1 gram food and used during three days. Not sure if that dosis is suitable for saltwater fishes too.

The dosage would depend on the concentration of Praziquantel in the Brand used. It does not dissolve well so is best added to foods as apposed to the water directly. If using Prazipro (5%), add to the food @ 9mg/kilo of fish. It should not be a weight based on food fed but the fish itself.

Alternately it can be done as a bath @ 7.6 mg/gallon for 24 hrs or a dip @ 40mg/gal for 3ish hours. Some advocate higher than that but it's not really necessary. Be sure to aerate the bath/dip well before and during the treatment.

Cheers
Steve

 

[albert]

If using Prazipro (5%), add to the food @ 9mg/kilo of fish. It should not be a weight based on food fed but the fish itself.

Do you mean that the fish should get 0.45mg pure praziquatel per kilo? How often and how many times or is this the total amount of the whole treatment?

 

[steve-s]

Where are you getting pure Praziquantel? What exactly do you have?

Cheers
Steve

 

[albert]

Steve,

No, I don't have pure one, more, I don't have anything yet.
I'd only like to know the common formula, just in case, so anyone could calculate the actual brutto amount needed depending on the brand he has. Assuming of course that the concentration is known and one would be able to perform simple calculations. You know, we are living almost in different worlds, especially after Estonia had joined to European Union. It's hard to get drugs outside of EU because those probably don't have pending EU approvement. So, the Prazipro brand doesn't tell me much, in the same way as Preis Coly for you.

 

[steve-s]

So, the Prazipro brand doesn't tell me much, in the same way as Preis Coly for you.

http://www.uskoi.com/prazipro.htm
Ingredients: oxybispropanol (as an inert solubilizing agent) and <5% praziquantel by weight.

The dosage formula still holds to what I said above 9mg/kilo of fish weight used daily for seven days. From what I understand the problem is usually eliminated after the first few doses, the extra is just to be sure and will not cause any issues. The dosage strength can be used many times stronger than that but is unneccessary.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Terry B]

If the remaining fish are doing fine then I would continue feeding garlic soaked foods. You could use some Praziquantel. Keep in mind that white stringy poop can be caused by tainted foods. How old are the foods and how do you store them?

Terry B

 

[albert]

Just FYI, the answers to my questions from both above mentioned manufacturers arrived.

About Preis Coly (machine translation from german)

Dear Mr. Saar,

with Price Coly you can unscrupulously accomplish a treatment in the reef tank. Corals, shrimps and other inverterbrates are not damaged. With intestine parasites use Price Coly for 2 days in the water and together with the food if necessary. This treatment must be repeated after 8 days, so that the slipped eggs are killed. Price Coly works only against intestine-, gill- and dog worms. Bristle worms and tube worms are not damaged.

Yours sincerely
Price Aquaristik Cornelia Price

And about Gyromarine from Mark Pahlsmeier (Aquarium Munster)

Dear Henn,

as you will find also on the package and the using instruction the product gyromarin is not tolerated by invertebrates or marine worms like bristle. You must catch the fish and treat them seperatly. If this is not possible you can try to give the product over the food. Problem on this is always, that the sick fish do not eat so much anymore and you can't control how much they eat. If you want to treat against internal worms you have to mix about 5 - 6 ml in 100 g of food and feed the fish over 6 days.

Have a good success!