Geo Reactor Frustrations

[zenn]

I am having problems getting my new Geo 618 reactor dialed in. I've received some great help earlier but the saga continues as all my attemps to dial in the reactor have proved fruitless.

I'm using a 5lbs co2 tank with the milwaukee regulator(has a bubble counter on it). The media I'm using is the GenX Large Media CRM.

I've been trying to get the reactor dialed in for about 3 weeks now, and I'm very frustrated.

The issue I'm having is air build up in the reactor. I read the instruction manual "troubleshooting" section and found the recommendations for this problem. I deduced the air was NOT coming from the feed bump because the air buildup ceased when I shut off the c02 for a day.

I originally thought there was a leak in the c02 line allowing outside air to get into the system some how. I figured this air wouldn't be used in the reactor(since it's not pure co2) and it was building up. BUt after numerous soapy water tests, I coudlnt' find a leak(however, i never have checked the fittings that came on the milwaukee regulator because those were suppose to be sealed from the factory). It's important to note that the tank pressure in the 5lbs tank has remained stable, and I don't believe there's a leak allowing the co2 in the tank to escape.

So that left me thinking it was c02 buildup. The reactor seems to work fine under 20bpm, but above that, the buildup starts happening. An interesting thing to note here is that when the air bubbles build up in the top of the reactor, I'll sometimes tip the reactor slightly to allow the air bubbles to get sucked back into the circulation pump....and when this happens, the ph doesn't change in the reactor. I am wondering if this means the air bubbles are not co2 because wouldn't the PH drop rapidly if you pumped a bunch of co2 air bubbles back into the circulation pump?

So, I've tried adjusting bpm, effluent rate, and just haven't figured out what's causing the air buildup. The one thing I noticed today for the first time is that I only have the reactor half full of media. I believe the instructions say to add enough media to reach the line on the Geo Sticker on the reactor. Do I not have enough media in the reactor thus causing the air buildup?

 

[zenn]

 

[DonW]

It shouldnt matter how much media is in it. Your not going to see a sudden drop in ph if you suck in a bunch of co2. What is your effluent rate? Also your not going to know if its sucking air by using soapy water.

Don

 

[zenn]

It shouldnt matter how much media is in it. Your not going to see a sudden drop in ph if you suck in a bunch of co2. What is your effluent rate? Also your not going to know if its sucking air by using soapy water.

Don

true.

Yesterday:
BPM = 40
Effluent Rate = 85ml/m

Today(backed down because of air buildup):
BPM = 30
effluent rate = 50ml/m

 

[DonW]

true.

Yesterday:
BPM = 40
Effluent Rate = 85ml/m

Today(backed down because of air buildup):
BPM = 30
effluent rate = 50ml/m

Your not going to accomplish any thing doing that. Yesterday your co2 to water input ratio was actually lower than it is now. Get more water moving through the reactor. How are you feeding it?

Don

 

[zenn]

Your not going to accomplish any thing doing that. Yesterday your co2 to water input ratio was actually lower than it is now. Get more water moving through the reactor. How are you feeding it?

Don

maxijet 1200.

 

[DonW]

maxijet 1200.

Do you have a spare aqualifter or a peristaltic pump? You need to really offset the co2 to effluent ratio.

Don

 

[zenn]

I have an aqualifter.

What ratio would you recommend.

 

[DonW]

Try 100ml min with 30 bpm. I would also see if the aqualifter has enough power to hook in up to the output side of the reactor. Pulling/suckin water through it rather than pushing water.

Don

 

[zenn]

The last 4 days, i've noticed something strange. My alk is going up while my CA is going down while I'm running the reactor only. I stopped using Kalk a week ago because it was making my CAX adjustments impossible to do.

So the last three days I've seen the following:

March 23nd
Alk=15.8dkh
CA=420
bpm=30
effluent=50ml/m
effluent ph = 7.2

March 24
alk=15.4
ca=405ppm
*Adjustment: bpm=40 effluent=90ml/m

March 26
alk=16.4
ca=385ppm
effluent ph = 7.1

what is going on? Is my effluent ph too low?

 

[DonW]

what is going on? Is my effluent ph too low?

Not with that media. Turn the thing off for a few days and get your ca rebalanced. When you fire it back up increase the effleunt rate quite a bit and leave the co2 alone.
Its sounds like your kind of on the line between needing a carx and not. This is a tough place to try and dial in a new reactor.

Don

 

[zenn]

meh, i wrote that wrong at the end of my last post. I meant to ask "is my effluent ph to high".

Ok, I'll do that. I'll just balance it out this week, then try again thursday probably. Does starting with 40bpm and 200ml/m sound good?

 

[DonW]

meh, i wrote that wrong at the end of my last post. I meant to ask "is my effluent ph to high".

Ok, I'll do that. I'll just balance it out this week, then try again thursday probably. Does starting with 40bpm and 200ml/m sound good?

Sound good just wait for the alk to fall or do some water changes.

Don

 

[zenn]

Got some updates:

March 26 - Shut off reactor during evening and supplemented CA with TurboCA

March 27
CA - 400ppm
alk - 13.2dkh
supplemented CA again with Turbo CA

March 28
ca - 405ppm
alk - 11.2 dkh
Turned reactor back on;
200ml/m
40bpm

March 29
CA - 400ppm
alk - 12.2dkh

So my thoughts are alk and CA aren't ionically balanced. The GEO troubleshooting guide gives the following recommendation when the calcium and alkalinity levels are not increasing simultaneously:

"this is caused by the inonic balance bewtween the calcium and alkalinity being skewed. Rasise the lower level manually with the appropriate buffer. As the lower level increases the higher level will decrease. Once the levels are in check the reactor will then maintain them as needed."

I interpret this in two ways:
1. In my case, I should dose Turbo CA to drive down the alk, and raise the CA until they both either raise and fall together.
2. In my case, i should lower the bubbles per minute until alk stays stable since it's the level that is actually increaseing daily. While doing that, I should also be supplementing Turbo CA to lower alkalinity and ionically balance CA and alk. However, this seems tricky as adding calcium hydroxide will lower alk making adjusting the reactor pointless. This makes me think interpretation #1 is best.

Thoughts?

 

[DonW]

I interpret this in two ways:
1. In my case, I should dose Turbo CA to drive down the alk, and raise the CA until they both either raise and fall together.
2. In my case, i should lower the bubbles per minute until alk stays stable since it's the level that is actually increaseing daily. While doing that, I should also be supplementing Turbo CA to lower alkalinity and ionically balance CA and alk. However, this seems tricky as adding calcium hydroxide will lower alk making adjusting the reactor pointless. This makes me think interpretation #1 is best.

Thoughts?

Your thinking to much. Lower your bubble count so that alk stays stable. Dose ca and mg as needed. A carx is not a cure all. Some systems will eat ca and alk in different amounts. Use the carx to maintain alk dont sweat the ca and just dose as needed. Calcium hydroxide (kalk) will not lower your alk it will more likely increase.

Don

 

[zenn]

Now I'm having problems with the co2 equipment. The directions on my Milwaukee sm122 regulator say to turn the main adjustment knob "in" until there's 10lbs of pressure on the low pressure gauge (the one to the right in the pic). Then to try and adjust the bubble flow as much as possible using this knob...and to only use the needle valve if you can't get the bubble count adjusted correctly.

What i've foudn is that unless there's 10lbs of pressure on the low pressure guage, the co2 won't enter the reactor. It builbs up somewhere in between. So i've been closing the needle valve, turning up the main adjustment knob to 10lbs, and then slowly openning the needle valve to get the right bubble rate. It seems to be pretty difficult to get the right bubble count though....because after 10 minutes or so...the low pressure gauge starts indicating pressure is bleeding off so then the c02 stops entering the reactor and starts building up somewhere. So then I go back, and turn in the main adjustment knob a little more to bring it back up to 10lbs. Do I just continue to do this until it stays stable?

 

[acrodesiac]

I agree, keep your alk. at 10-12 dkh and worry about cal. later Did you get the extra air out of the chamber yet?

 

[acrodesiac]

When you say main knob, do mean the knob on the bottle or the knob on the regulator? I open the bottle knob all the way and the regulator knob 1/2 a turn or so.

 

[DonW]

Now I'm having problems with the co2 equipment. The directions on my Milwaukee sm122 regulator say to turn the main adjustment knob "in" until there's 10lbs of pressure on the low pressure gauge (the one to the right in the pic). Then to try and adjust the bubble flow as much as possible using this knob...and to only use the needle valve if you can't get the bubble count adjusted correctly.

What i've foudn is that unless there's 10lbs of pressure on the low pressure guage, the co2 won't enter the reactor. It builbs up somewhere in between. So i've been closing the needle valve, turning up the main adjustment knob to 10lbs, and then slowly openning the needle valve to get the right bubble rate. It seems to be pretty difficult to get the right bubble count though....because after 10 minutes or so...the low pressure gauge starts indicating pressure is bleeding off so then the c02 stops entering the reactor and starts building up somewhere. So then I go back, and turn in the main adjustment knob a little more to bring it back up to 10lbs. Do I just continue to do this until it stays stable?

Honestly they are junk and very difficult to adjust. Its not you, its the regulator and cheap valve.

Don

 

[acrodesiac]

Cheap I agree but that thing looks brand new, it should be working at least pretty good. I've had the same unit for two years and it still works great, although it will probably be replaced soon do to salt creep corrosion