Getting a volitans to eat after surgery

[jennyclark]

OK, it really wasn't surgery, but it sure seemed like it! Last Wed. my 8 inch Volitans lionfish swallowed a 7 inch crab leg from the grocery store. After some frantic phone calls to uberfugu and the Seattle Aquarium, Barbie and I netted him and got the crab leg out with pliers. That was not fun. He hasn't eaten since, but is now much more active. I'm sure he is a little distrusting of me, I mean how can he not be?

How long can he go without eating? How should I get him to eat?

I have had him for almost a year now and I'm guessing him to be at least 5 years old or so. Prior to this, he ate any frozen seafood and/or fishfoods.

He didn't have any outward signs of injury from this awful experience, but I am sure there was some internal damage. He never hemorrhaged.

Any ideas? See the very scary picture. You can see part of it sticking out of his mouth and protuding near his anal fin.

--jenny

 

[wrightme43]

Two weeks is about the time I start to worry. He/she is probley still sore inside. Have you tried freeze dried krill?

 

[NaH2O]

Wow jenny! That is a scarey photo! Good job getting the crab leg out - did it look pretty clean, as in nothing from the fish attached to it? I'm not sure how much damage would have occurred, or even if there is anything extra you can do other than keeping the water quality pristine and observing him.

Keep us updated on the recovery!

 

[jennyclark]

The crab leg did come out clean. And no bleeding. I tried putting him in QT, but he just stressed way too much. I've put him back in the 180g two days ago.

I just fed the tank and he looked at the food, but still no interest.

 

[steve-s]

Would have been a better idea to leave the lion in the QT. Much easier to get a fish like this to eat while "undisturbed" by the community. You could have then lowered the salinity a good amount which can often help with these kinds of situations not to mention easing stress. It would have also been easier to implement an antibiotic treatment if necessary. Call it future reference material if this ever happens again.

As far as foods go, I would try live for the most part. Getting the fish to eat being the primary goal. Nutrition can be augmented depending on what it eventually eats but rekindling the feeding response will be more important. Ghost shrimp or what have you. Do not use fish feeders as they can/will introduce problems unto themselves. Most likely as the others have already said, the fish is still not completely recovered internally so feeding interest will be supressed. Be sure you keep an eye out for any signs of infection, bloating (if it does eat), odd skin color/cloudy eye's and the area just behind the eye's for evidence of constriction.

Cheers
Steve

 

[jennyclark]

I had to remove him from the QT bc it's only 29g which stressed him enough, then the antibiotics killed my before-unkown population of bristleworms raising the ammonia to levels I couldn't control by water changes. He was trying to jump out bc the ammonia was burning his gills.

His coloring is beautiful and he is changing colors based on his mood as before.

I have thought about ordering a few damsels wholesale so I know where they came from and gut load them to spur his interest.

 

[steve-s]

I have thought about ordering a few damsels wholesale so I know where they came from and gut load them to spur his interest.

As I said, try to avoid this. Unless you have reared thse fish yourself, they can introduce pathogens/parasites the same as any new aquisition unless QT'd and treated accordingly.

You'd be trading one problem for another.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Terry B]

I agree for the most part with Steve. Reducing the salinity would be a good idea, but a bit late now if this didn't happen in the past few days. Crabs carry some really nasty bacteria. I would have treated with an antibiotic. First choice probably Maracyn-Two or Neomycin in this case. You definately do not want to expose this fish to ammonia during the healing process as ammonia can damage the internal linings. The fish may be expending a lot of energy in healing and posssibly combating a bacterial infection. The fact that the lion's coloration is nomral is a good sign. Is the fish holding its fins upright or are they at an angle? Some Stressguard or Pro Tech Coat Marine is a good idea when fish are injured (for future reference). I would try a large water change with well aged and aerated saltwater and some live food. If you get desperate you could try a live feeder goldfish. This is not normally a good idea, but if it won't eat anything else goldfish will probably be less likely to carry pathogens that will infect saltwater fish. Just don't keep up the habit of feeding them goldfish or any freshwater fish for that matter.
After a highly stressful event it can take a couple of weeks for the stress hormones in the blood to return to pre-stress levels. Stress hormones can inhibit any and all feeding behaviors and interfere with digestion. You can assit the fish in getting those stress hormones down in the blood by removing any source of stress. This can include water changes, reducing lighting and removing any other source of stress. Do you have a dark cave in the tank where the lionfish can get out of the light? They love to hang upside down in caves.
If the fish was eating then I would suggest adding some Beta glucan to the food to boost immune function. A good food for lionfish is uncooked tiger prawns. You can get them in the seafood department of most grocery stores. Uncooked prawns (large shrimp, not the dinner salad type) are a good source of nutrition for these fish and the shrimp provide some iodine which is important to a lionfish for long term health (and avoiding goiter). Peal the shell off of the uncooked prawns and cut them into about four pieces. The lion might not take a new food right now, but once it tries a taste or two of the prawns they quickly become a favorite. Most lions won't eat the prawns if the fall to the bottom so you may have to pick it up and try again a few times. Once the lion is eating again you should offer the uncooked prawns often. Keep in mind that lionfish should not be fed more than every other day at most. Do not feed them until thier stomach looks like it will burst. These fish will consume more than they can digest leading to internal bacterial infection so don't feed too often or too much at any one feeding. You can kill them with kindness by overfeeding.

HTH,
Terry B

 

[Barbie]

Just as a little additional information here, the original plan was to start the lion on metronidazole injected shrimp (shrimp is his favorite food usually) and he DID eat the first day after we had to remove that leg. I had asked a vet friend of mine what the recommended antibiotic would be, and she actually thought metro might do more good as it has antibiotic properties and is used for many intestinal problems. I already knew the correct dosing and was comfortable with using it, so we tried that first. This lion is VERY interactive. It's almost impossible to get a picture of the side of him. He recognizes you and is more like a dog than a fish, in many ways.

The second day he refused to take the shrimp. The 3rd day his eye started to cloud due to scraping from the net, I'm sure! (mind you, you can not possibly imagine how much fun this just was NOT getting that thing out of him). I recommended Jenny move him into the quarantine at that point, & took her a broad spectrum antibiotic that I had here. It claimed to be fine for SW and we were both shooting blind, so she tried it. It obviously interrupted the biological bacteria also. The subsequent rise in ammonia stressed the fish terribly, so she decided to put him back in the 180. He's comfortable in there, and absolutely the dominant fish. Yesterday when I was over he would swim up and look at me again already.

I honestly think the fish just needs time to not feel sore and get his appetite back. Keep in mind, Jenny's fish eat better than most of us do! The lion LOVES shrimp and all sorts of other raw seafood and fish usually. I think Jenny was just hoping that the introduction of a blue damsel or two would give him something to "hunt" and stimulate him. He had 2 damsels in the tank when he was originally introduced, and he took great joy in hunting them down and catching them when Jenny wasn't able to!

On a side note Jenny, you can always repossess those guppies, if worse comes to worse, then you won't have to worry!

Barbie

 

[Terry B]

By the second day a bacterial infection may have started in any internal wounds caused by extracting the crab leg. I would not have chosen metronidazole to treat a bacterial infection in a fish because it is very limited in effectiveness when used for that purpose. The cloudiness of the eye alone is a strong indicator of bacterial infection. Some antibiotics will wipe out a biofilter (Neomycin is one), but Maracyn-Two should not. However, if it were my fish I probably would have opted for Neomycin first in this case. If you are going to add anything to the food then some Beta glucan as an immune system stimulant can be quite beneficial to the fish. Congrats on getting the crab leg out. I am sure that you took the risk of getting stung (you don't want to experience this) by the lion while getting the crab out.

Terry B

 

[jennyclark]

After moving the lion back to his home in the 180, his eye is perfectly clear. He is swimming throught the entire tank and is once again the respected leader of the community. He has a favorite cave and he went right back to it. He has no external sores, lesions, bloating, abcesses. I have tried garlic in the water, zoe on the food, vitamin c. He IS interested in food, just not eating.

I have had him for almost a year and I have never given him feeders, except the two damsels he found. He really loves the bright blue ones and I was thinking that might stimulate his hunting response. I DO completely understand about the danger of feeders, but....

I followed the advice of the lionfish man at the Seattle Aquarium about the medications and course of treatment. The was a very traumatic event for all three of us (Barbie went home with a headache). He is the most beautiful lion and very friendly, I hate to lose him.

Terry, where did you say I can get the Beta glucan? I do remember you telling about that in Tri-cities last week.

thanks for the concern all.
--jenny

 

[jennyclark]

Sad to report that Mr Lion died this week.

 

[NaH2O]

Sorry to hear that jenny .