Getting first tank - Need Equipment advice

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trc

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2005
Messages
53
Location
Phila, PA
I had a marine aquarium over twenty years ago and it seems everything has changed, my first surprise is I'm a rooky. I had a 55 gal tank, with hanging and undergravel filters, with a lot of success.

I'm going to start with LR and fish and then move to corals once I get used to spending a grand on a light fixture. Money's not the issue, I'm just still in shock how much the hobby has changed/improved.

Live in 2nd flr apartment and am thinking of getting a 75 or 125 gal glass, not sure how many holes to have drilled, or where for good circulation. Could use some advise.

I guess I would really like to hear what components would constitute a "dream system" for a 75 and 125 gal set up.
 
Welcome to RF trc! Hmmm..undergravel filters...Yeah, things have changed(LOL) A dream system to most of us here would be something that looks like Mike's (Mojoreef) That'll do it! Right now, there are so many options out there from type of substrate, flow design, sump design, lighting etc. that would keep you researching forever. I guess your best bet would be to check out some threads in the Tank design forum or the Members Showcase forum which will give you an idea of what some people are using and step by step proceedure of building there system. I'm sure others will chime in soon to give their advice/opinions so in the meantime maybe you could check out some of those setups and may give you some ideas and help you come up with a game plan. If you would like to see some filtration setups, here is a thread that has a few...Hope that helps and best of luck!
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10264
 
Thanks Krish! I'll search the thread you've sent. I've been reading for about three weeks and just found the forums on the web. Your right, there are so many products out there, and as I read the web, just as many opinions. Thought I'd throw the question out to eliminate some of the products which are all hype and no action. Thanks again! trc
 
LOL..No problem! You've come to the right place as everyone here is friendly and helpful as you will soon see. A lot of things out there are a waste of time and it's good to have a place like this you can ask a question and have it answered rather than spending your money and being dissapointed. So just ask away! No-one here minds an inquisitive person. We all thirst for knowledge and love to help a fellow reefer.
 
TRC,

Welcome! Deffinetly see the link Krish provided. And Krish is right. There are a lot of friendly knowledgable people here (Even Krish) LOL :)

No really.....I learned everything from these guys and gals.

Glad to see you are getting back in the hobby!

See you around!

James
 
Welcome! Deffinetly see the link Krish provided. And Krish is right. There are a lot of friendly knowledgable people here (Even Krish) LOL

So would that mean I don't just talk a bunch of crap?:rolleyes: JK... Any luck yet trc with which direction you are planning on heading? Don't forget to ask if you have any questions...
 
I haven't as of yet and probably won't until I get ready to go and get it. Which may not be until after the holidays, too much to do.

As I will always feel like I should have gotten the 125, if I get anything else less, it will probably be the 125. One of my real concerns is that I'm in an apartment and have no ability to upgrade the electrical service and am concerned that with the amount of equipment I can fit under the tank, I may not have enough service.

I do have an associated question - do you have any links to forums dealing with energy costs with tanks. Not that it is a problem, but am wondering what impact it will have on my monthy bill.

Another newbie question - when sizing equipment, I expect that I have to include the volume of water in my sump, ie.. 125 gal for the tank + sump?

Another newbie question - I'm considering having a refug and was wondering if you know of any manufactuers that build these into their sumps?

Thanks in advance for the replies, got to sign off and get up early.
 
I do have an associated question - do you have any links to forums dealing with energy costs with tanks. Not that it is a problem, but am wondering what impact it will have on my monthy bill.

Not sure of a link...Sorry. However, I don't know about over in the U.S, but for me I have never really noticed much of an increase in electricity with the tank running. A lot of the new equipment these days don't pull very much current so you shouldn't notice anything drastic. I think lighting is the main "power sucker" Some lights will put some nice extra digits on your electricity bill(LOL).

Another newbie question - when sizing equipment, I expect that I have to include the volume of water in my sump, ie.. 125 gal for the tank + sump?

Yeah that would be the best bet. IMO, you can never really over due it. I have a 90 gal with 20 gal sump and I usually buy for what will run a 125 gal (in most cases) It gives you headroom and also, allows for an upgrade later without having to change out equipment.

Another newbie question - I'm considering having a refug and was wondering if you know of any manufactuers that build these into their sumps?

Yeah, there are tons of places out there that incorporate a fuge in the sump. Here are a few...

This first one the guy custom builds them. Really a great site to check out.
http://melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...&Product_Code=CPR-AFPRO&Category_Code=Special

http://www.jmkdisplays.homestead.com/sumprefugium.html

http://www.lifereef.com/custom.html

Some diy ones you can do with a standard all-glass tank
http://www.wetdryfilter.com/special_requests.htm

http://www.innovativeaquarium.com/Refugiums.html
 
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Welcome to Reef Frontiers and back into the hobby!

The first step, which you've already done is determining what you want to keep. You want to start out as a fish only with live rock, but are considering corals at a later time. If you are sure you want to keep corals, then make sure the fish you choose are "reef safe" meaning, they don't eat corals or other invertebrates (if you plan on keeping snails, shrimp, crabs, etc) :). Do you know what types of corals you are interested in (mainly SPS, LPS, softies, mixed reef)? Depending on the answer to that, will modify the amount of flow in your tank. Most SPS keepers like to have alot of flow moving about in the tank. Do you think you want to have a bare bottomed tank, or have a type of substrate (shallow sandbed, deep sandbed, crushed coral, plenum). Here is a link that I feel is helpful when deciding what type of filtration you want: Let's Talk About ~Filtration Concepts~

In my opinion, a skimmer will be one of the most important pieces of equipment for your tank. You will want to use the total water volume for determining the size of skimmer you need. Here is a thread about skimming: Skimming 101. I also like this thread. There is a good post about manufacturer's overrating their skimmer's capabilities: My SKimmer? Thinking of Getting Euro Reef

Sometimes, its difficult trying to figure out how to plumb a tank. Here is a workshop you may find helpful: The Plumbing and Water Flow Workshop. I would suggest getting a tank that is drilled for an overflow. This will eliminate the need for a hang on back overflow. You can drill a tank for a closed loop, or do a hang on back closed loop. Powerheads are an option, as are Tunzes, sea swirls, wave box, etc. There are quite a few things to choose from, but placement is important.

RO/DI water is another important part to a successful reef tank. This is a good article about it: Reverse Osmosis/Deionization Systems to Purify Tap Water for Reef Aquaria by Randy Holmes-Farley

You might want to scan through this thread for information on Electrical: Wiring and Electrical Design and Safety. There is a link to calculators in the first post, but I'm not sure if it helps to calculate how much difference you'll see. Once you get all your equipment figured out, then you might be able to get a closer estimation....based on pumps, heater, lights, etc.

When you want to get into your lighting set-up, here is a great website where you can compare bulbs and ballasts Sanjay's Reef Lighting Info Pages

I hope I'm not overwhelming you. There is alot of information out there, so trying to weed through everything is tough. We have a great group of people here, so bounce your questions off of us! I can't wait to see your system come together.
 
Thanks for the advice, I'm going to scan what the various links and articles you've sent, and then be back!
 
Thanks for the advice, I'm going to scan what the various links and articles you've sent, and then be back!

See you in February then(LOL) Best of luck! I hope you find something useful...
 
The one thing I learned from starting my first saltwater tank in Feb 2005 is, that I wish I would have done it right hte first time. I have upgraded so much over the last 10 months and it cost me more and more $$$. Right now I am in the process of upgrading my lighting to VHO?MH so I CAN keep corals. I guess what I am trying to say is, do it right the first time. Save yourself the trouble and $$$ in the future.

Keep us posted on your progress!

And again... Welcome aboard.

James
 
Thanks for all the links, I'll only be gone for the holidays and then a couple of weeks out of country in February.

I'm definitely going with the drilled 125 and while I was thinking of a sump/refurgiam? combo, I'm wondering if I'm not bitting off more than I can chew. I may buy a combo sump and then upgrade to the plants if I get convinced it's worth the effort.

My LFS uses a ETSS skimmer and pushes them. I'm considering that or the Euro-Reef or Deltec skimmer. More reading and contemplating I guess.

Right now I'm trying to decide on lighting. The standard light unit that covers the 125 is no deal if I'm going to upgrade. However spending a grand on lighting still puts me in shock. I've looked at the retro kits and buy the time you get the case and all of the internals, your right up there with a new complete unit. I've read about the electronic ballast and the only benefit I've been able to find is the energy consumption, which at their added costs, means quite a few years before you breakeven. That is unless I'm missing something.

One of the reasons I've decided on the 125, other than the fact it is more impressive than a 75 or 90, is that the cabinet has the capabilities to accomodate more equipment.

My set up will prohibit me from plumbing in a RO/RI unit to a autofill unit. However I do like the ability to put in some kind of in cabinet container which I can heat and keep movement in to allow an automatic fill operation. I haven't seen much on this but will look.

Everything I've read, across all of the web forums, prioritize importance of the hobby as follows; lighting, skimming, water quality, quarantine. After that I'm not sure were the following rate; Calc reactor, UV units, Ozone. I'd be interested in where these stand and any other types of equipment rate.

PS: I don't even have a tank yet and my wife says she feels like an aquarium widow.

Thanks for the help!
 
As I will always feel like I should have gotten the 125, if I get anything else less, it will probably be the 125. One of my real concerns is that I'm in an apartment and have no ability to upgrade the electrical service and am concerned that with the amount of equipment I can fit under the tank, I may not have enough service.

Nikki, Krish and Tava are right about setting up a tank.
One thing is you might wanna consider about is the size of your tank, like not that big since you live in the second floor and in case you move (lucky.. i live on the third one:D), if your neighbours are friendly in case you flood their apartment (been there and it's not pretty :D ).
I'm still new to the hobby and there's just a lot to learn about it and so many things.
Anyways, i wish you good luck with your tank and welcome to our home RF :)
 
I was thinking that if I oversize the sump and get an in sump skimmer, the chance of flooding is greatly reduced. Of course proper plumbing seems a necessity as you want as many shutoff valves to isolate the tank from the sump to all maintenance. Am I missing something?
 
TRC,

I use the ASM skimmer. I have the G-3. It is said that it is similar to the Euro Reef, for a lot less $$$. My G-3 skims the heck out of my 90 gallon. I am very happy with it and it is one of the ones someone on this site recomended to me. you may want to check out asmskimmer.com.

On the issue of lighting, I am going to buy the VHO ballast and wiring kit for around $50.00 and just instal it all into my existing hoods that came with my tank. (Iwill tear out all the normal output ballast and wiring and replace it with the VHO retro. I am not sure if this is a good ballast (but the price is nice). I know it is not the Icecap "electric" ballast (that is said to save $$$ on energy consumption and costs over $100.00) but it may be an idea for you. Check it out. http://www.hellolights.com/22elarovhoba.html

James
 
for live rock and such reefermadness.us might be a good place to buy alot of stuff for your tank, especially as you spend more u can save more using their new tank discount, they're a sponser here and they have a really good reputation. After buying live rock from them at quite good prices you can save on cleaner crews (10%) and then order a bunch of livestock in a mixture of corals. just a thought
 
I'd appreciate a little more on SpongeBob's comment on flooding. Considering that I oversize my sump, get an in sump skimmer and valve appropriately, do I have a potential for flooding from the system? It would seem this would minimize the potential.

I guess the only other possibility would be a pump failure on the return line? I'm not sure if when the pump fails does it allow water to back bleed into the sump?

As I've decided on the 125 vs the 75, the size of the tank seems insignificant as both have enough water to ruin my downstairs neighbors evening.

Thanks in advance for your comments!
 
I'd appreciate a little more on SpongeBob's comment on flooding. Considering that I oversize my sump, get an in sump skimmer and valve appropriately, do I have a potential for flooding from the system? It would seem this would minimize the potential.

Well, an oversized sump does give you a better chance at preventing a flood, but doesn't necessarily have to be oversized. A sump overflowing with say a power outtage will usually be caused by having your water level too high in the tank above your pre-filter/overflow and your water level not set right in the sump. When the power cuts or your main return pump is un-plugged, the tanks water will drain itself into the sump until the water level drops below the overflow/pre-filter. Also, your return pump line will back siphon into your sump from the tank too until your nozzle head is above water level or (which is always recommended you would have a small hole drilled into your return nozzle/spout right below water level), once that is exposed to air, it will break the siphon. So really, you would just have to make sure that your water levels are correct between the tank and the sump and that your sump can handle the flow of your pre-filer/overflow. About in sump skimmers, yeah I heard that they are "safer" in terms of preventing a flood, but you can have external without flooding also. The best way to prevent an external skimmer from flooding your place is to use something like this to connect your skimmers collection cup to http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...OD&Product_Code=AQUAC-WC5&Category_Code=AquaC
It will pretty much shut off your skimmer to prevent a flood if the water your skimmer is pushing out of the collection cup gets too high or you could just use a big container like a 1/2 gal jug I use, which usually does the trick
HTH:)
 
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Thanks Krisch, while I can appreciate Spongebob's comments, (it would be really really bad to flood the neighbors) I thought I may be missing something.

I was very good at keeping the water "in" the aquarium on my last tank, the biggest problem I had was salt creep, but this seems to be minimized now with the undercabinet sump and the elimination of air stones.

Like I said earlier, I am considering a refug/sump. I see the drawback as additional maintenance and costs, but it seems with the added cleansing and food stuff generation for the main tank, the benefits should outweigh the con.

Any thoughts?
 
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