GFIC electrical question

[kpiotrowski]

I had some plug-in type GFIC's on my tanks before and noticed after a power outage they would trip when the power came back one. I am currently wiring the garage for my new build and have 2 20amp circuits available. my question is how important is it to use GFI's and is there a risk of them tripping when the power comes back on like the plug-in type did on me. I will probably be using both circuits close to the max. If it is prudent to run GFI, and does it lessen the risk of them triping due to the above mentioned if I run several on each circuit?

TIA!

 

[mfinn]

I have 2 gfi circuits for my tank and I have never had them trip when the power comes back on, and it does happen several times a year.
My guess is you may have had too much of a load for that outlet to handle safely, or something on that circuit was not right. Maybe a bad heater or something like that?

 

[kpiotrowski]

I have 2 gfi circuits for my tank and I have never had them trip when the power comes back on, and it does happen several times a year.
My guess is you may have had too much of a load for that outlet to handle safely, or something on that circuit was not right. Maybe a bad heater or something like that?

is that 2 circuits on one breaker or on two? that what I was wonder is what kind of a "start" up load they can take befoore tripping. I have the apex and two 8 outlets I will be using.

 

[IPisces]

I agree with finn, you may have had too high of a starting load on that GFCI. It was recognizing it as a short circuit because everything was drawing too many amps on startup.
I would install GFCI outlets. I've not had any problems with any that my equipment is plugged into.

 

[IPisces]

Am I miss understanding that the Apex and the receivers dont have to be plugged in at the same place. Cant you plug the apex unit in one outlet and plug each of the 8 outlet powerstrips in two different outlets?

 

[eww]

GFCI outlets do not trip because of excessive load, That is the electrical panel breakers job. They trip if there is a load imbalance. In essence they monitor how much electricity is coming in from the source (hot wire) and how much is going out the other side (neutral wire). Any slight drop in the outflow vs. the inflow (just a couple of milliamps is all it takes) will trip the GFCI and kill the outlet. Things that can lead to a drop are things like a bad heater, a pump that is leaking electricity, you holding something plugged into the outlet that isn't in perfect operation and touching the water diverting the electricity through you to the water (you know we all do it with powerheads, heaters and such ) GFCI outlets are a good thing to have in our hobby but can be problematic without perfectly good operating electrical equipment. It comes down to what sucks more... The risk of shocking yourself or others to the point of injury... or coming home to a cold lifeless aquarium because that stupid heater that you knew you should have replaced a year ago tripped the GFCI. Your life is more important IMO.

Disclaimer... I am not an electrician but went through quite a bit of training on this very subject recently. You should always fault on the side of caution when mixing water, electricity and human life. Besides... It's just another reason to get that new thing you wanted instead of using the old, beat up, worn out one.

 

[kpiotrowski]

Am I miss understanding that the Apex and the receivers dont have to be plugged in at the same place. Cant you plug the apex unit in one outlet and plug each of the 8 outlet powerstrips in two different outlets?

yes that is the plan, one outlet strip on each breaker. but with 1500w heater and a 1/3hp chiller and halides etc etc. it all adds up!

 

[mfinn]

is that 2 circuits on one breaker or on two? that what I was wonder is what kind of a "start" up load they can take befoore tripping. I have the apex and two 8 outlets I will be using.

I have each gfi circuit on it's own breaker.

 

[mfinn]

Sounds like Eric has the right info

 

[kpiotrowski]

thanks eric!!! no GFI's for this guy! I do, an will have a ground probe though. that should help in an all out zapping situation,right?

 

[mfinn]

thanks eric!!! no GFI's for this guy!

Why?
Isn't a way to let you know there is a problem?

 

[kpiotrowski]

Why?
Isn't a way to let you know there is a problem?

for me its more of a way for my system to not come back on after a power outage and I highly value the automation I have invested in.....more than my life I guess lol.

like eric said 'cold lifeless aquarium" or risk of shock. if figure with a ground probe, that will be the better ground than me wearing shoes.

 

[eww]

I wasn't saying you shouldn't use them Kevin. I was simply explaining how they worked because the information that was being posted about overloading currents tripping them was not correct. That is exactly how I thought they worked previously as well until I got the crash course a few weeks ago. I think you should to protect yourself and others who may be in and around the electrical end of of your aquarium. Just be aware that improperly working equipment may trip them.

 

[senji]

i believe if electricity is within so many feet of water you have to be on gfci per fire marshal code. like the outlets in the bathroom. just fyi

 

[kpiotrowski]

I am just soooo reluctant based on experience with the aftermarket plug in types.....I suppose it would not be a problem to at least try them at first.

 

[trido]

yes that is the plan, one outlet strip on each breaker. but with 1500w heater and a 1/3hp chiller and halides etc etc. it all adds up!

Sounds to me like you need more than two dedicated circuits. I recently downgraded to two circuits from four. I think Eric's explanation is the best I've ever heard (or read).

 

[DBM Reef]

Kevin, You should take about 2 cups of saltwater and pour it directly into the gfci and let us know how it works! You know in the name of science.
LOL

JK I heard of issues with probes not being grounded properly being more harm than good so I would definetly check into it pretty closely before making
your decision.

 

[kpiotrowski]

Kevin, You should take about 2 cups of saltwater and pour it directly into the gfci and let us know how it works! You know in the name of science.
LOL

JK I heard of issues with probes not being grounded properly being more harm than good so I would definetly check into it pretty closely before making
your decision.

I don't understand how to ground it improperly? isn't gound ground? wether I hammer a copper ba into the ground or ground it to a wall plate isn't that the same???

 

[garydan]

A groud probe with no GFCI is a fire hazard. If the electrical short ends up pulling 19 amps arcing to ground through your tank, it won't trip the main breaker, it'll kill everything in the tank, and start a fire...

If you're having the garage wired, why not put GFI breakers in the panel?

We discussed the phenomenon of GFI breakers popping with high loads on startup in an electrical engineering class i took. It has something to do with the self inductance of coils of wire or capacitors causing a temporary imbalance between outgoing and incoming. It's typically a problem with large motors or ballasts. You can staggar equipment startup using your controller, and use a quality GFI rated for the loads you're doing (Like one in the panel rather than a plug in one). It's also possible you have something that's gone bad, so try measuring current to ground (not voltage) and see if something has gone bad.

Since you're talking garage, it is code to have GFI on all plugs in a garage, it's not really a choice here. If you're talking a tank in a livingroom, maybe you could argue it (though not likely since code says you have to have GFI within some distance of water), but a garage is specifically called out.

Disclaimer: I'm not an electician, but i have done years of permitted and inspected DIY electrical work and have a degree in computer engineering, a close cousin of an electrical engineering degree.

 

[garydan]

BTW, you can see this phenomenon yourself if you plug in a hair dryer in your bathroom. How could a two plug hair dryer short to ground? Yet, they often will pop a GFI when you turn them on and off...