GFIC electrical question

[kpiotrowski]

see, now THIS is why I asked started this thread. ok ok, GFI it is! so question, does the gfi need a special braker in the breaker box or are you just talking about wall receptacles? I actually have room for more than 2 breakers in the box. I have yet to calculate how many amps I actually need but I fiured I actually have 3 seperate curcuits in the garage if need be so was not concened.

 

[garydan]

I personally prefer the GFI that are a circuit breakers in the box over the plug type, i've never had a false GFI pop using those on my tank. I don't have any inside knowledge about their manufacture, but personal experience with them makes me think they're engineered better than the plug style. They're certainly more expensive. The "typical" usage of these breakers are things like hard wired swimming pool components, situations where the plug in style can't be used and the added cost of the breaker can be justified. It makes some sense for them to be engineered to handle pumps, heaters, ballasts, etc. better than a plug in style that's typically used in a bathroom or kitchen, that's just how they're used. All speculation though, i don't have any hard data to support this.

There's a lot of people that prefer the plug type over the breaker for various reasons, like price, convienience of reset when they pop, and convienience for testing. It makes sense to put a plug style in a bathroom for those reasons.

 

[kpiotrowski]

thanks again. I will look into this.

 

[Katchupoy]

I have been using the plug-in also for about 10 years now and it saved me a couple of times.. And never have it tripped on me like what the OP are describing.... just my 02 cents.

 

[suzannemay]

I have been thinking on this topic too..Not sure what I should do.. Eric you have seen my setup..any suggestions?

 

[eww]

As I said previously I always recommend to default to the side of caution. You can easily swap out your wall sockets. Depending on how your house is wired you may only need one (two if you are on two house circuits and so on) and it would cover all the receptacles wired in after it. Or like garydan suggested you could swap out the breakers in your box with GFCI breakers on the circuits that run your aquarium. This is something I would have a licensed electrician look into for you though.

 

[Peppie]

As I said previously I always recommend to default to the side of caution. You can easily swap out your wall sockets. Depending on how your house is wired you may only need one (two if you are on two house circuits and so on) and it would cover all the receptacles wired in after it. Or like garydan suggested you could swap out the breakers in your box with GFCI breakers on the circuits that run your aquarium. This is something I would have a licensed electrician look into for you though.

You could have Mojo stop by and take a look. Only if Suzanna didnt mind the smell of BURT FLESH!!!!

 

[suzannemay]

an electrician it is.. as pipes and electrical I don't touch! :fear:

 

[Scooterman]

GFCI outlets do not trip because of excessive load, That is the electrical panel breakers job. They trip if there is a load imbalance. In essence they monitor how much electricity is coming in from the source (hot wire) and how much is going out the other side (neutral wire). Any slight drop in the outflow vs. the inflow (just a couple of milliamps is all it takes) will trip the GFCI and kill the outlet. T

This is somewhat Incorrect, they can trip with excessive loads and they measure with ground reference not hot to neutral not that it is necessary to know how they work LOL!

I think Eric's explanation is the best I've ever heard (or read).

WE have a section here with complete information on this subject, issues with using a ground probe alone, what should use on the GFCI and what isn't necessary. In reality NEC codes require GFCI anywhere near water period.

Reef Keeping Electrical

Read through this section to get a better understanding.

 

[IPisces]

Thanks for that link Scooterman.

I was wondering if there was a short in a piece of equipment, the GFCI would have tripped prior to any power outage. And that is its main purpose as a GFCI to recognize a diversion of current and cut it off.

However, since it was only tripping at the time power came back on it seemed to me it had to be starting load.

There is more info on that here How Does a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter Work? | DoItYourself.com

quote from this link "In the United States, GFCI outlets are rated for 125 volts on either 15- or 20-amp circuits. This means that in most household and business applications, a GFCI outlet will trip if the current exceeds 15 or 20 amps, depending on the individual outlet rating."

Most of our equipment, particularly metal halides and pumps and heaters, if they are all plugged into the same outlet, will exceed that, particularly on start up.


Thinking about how many things we have plugged in on our tanks, its a wonder there are not more issues for any one of us.

 

[java]

Be careful of combination AFCI and GFCI breakers that are available now. These will often trip on start up from brush driven motors, they are just too sensitive, and the small arc from the brush to the commutator is enough to trip them.

 

[myindoorocean]

I bought and installed one and noticed that it said not to be used in damp areas? Is that normal or did I get the wrong kind. I'm kind of stupid when it comes to electrical matters, that's for sure.

 

[SaltyDog2]

Don't really know why I am sharing this other than I was recently frustrated with a Gfci. I had installed a Gfci that I got at home depot and it was working fine untill I got a new metal halide ballast. It started tripping the Gfci after it ran for about 10 minutes. I was told that a Hubble Gfci would not do that. I didn't believe it, but after about a month of frustration I went to an electrician friend (cause nobody here sells them to the public) and he got me a Hubble. It has worked with that ballast ever since I made the change. But now I'll probably get electricuted and die.

 

[kpiotrowski]

Lots of input here....and I have some more. Talked to an electrician and he said here in Washington State yes the garage has to be wired gfi, and yes swimming pools but but since I am not actually wiring the garage itself it does'nt have to be gfic. but thats just one opionion and I'm sure different inspectors would have different interpertations.

 

[Scooterman]

If an Inspector seen what you hooked up to that outlet they would most likely want you to use a GFCI. Reason is because of liability, not clear definitions when it comes to Code and Aquariums but there are codes with anything outside and around water, so they would rather be on the safe side and say you must use one. That said, I'm not sure how many people say anything about aquariums and outlets, they just pop one in and go with it LOL.

Lots of input here....and I have some more. Talked to an electrician and he said here in Washington State yes the garage has to be wired gfi, and yes swimming pools but but since I am not actually wiring the garage itself it does'nt have to be gfic. but thats just one opionion and I'm sure different inspectors would have different interpertations.

 

[bearjohnson]

All good stuff here! One thing also to consider is that "technically" GFI outlets are supposed to be on it's own breaker directly from the panel box. They are not intended to be just put into a receptacle box where ever the tank is and sharing the same circuit as other non-GFI outlets. You can add other outlets AFTER the 1st GFI and all will be protected. Just my $0.02 worth.

 

[Scooterman]

Not necessary, all depends on how you wire it, you can parallel off the CFCI the rest of the outlets and not have them GFCI protected but your right they are ment to be on one circuit.

All good stuff here! One thing also to consider is that "technically" GFI outlets are supposed to be on it's own breaker directly from the panel box. They are not intended to be just put into a receptacle box where ever the tank is and sharing the same circuit as other non-GFI outlets. You can add other outlets AFTER the 1st GFI and all will be protected. Just my $0.02 worth.

 

[bearjohnson]

Not necessary, all depends on how you wire it, you can parallel off the CFCI the rest of the outlets and not have them GFCI protected but your right they are ment to be on one circuit.

Agreed

I guess I was thinking in terms of why go through the trouble of running a dedicated line specifically for the tank only to have it feed other outlets.

 

[dnjan]

I thought GFCI's were required in garages.

I have always had much better luck with GFCI breakers than GFCI's in outlet boxes. I guess they cost a lot more for a reason ...

(note - above was written before I read the entire thread, so I guess I was correct about them being required in garages.
The next sentence, about not having trouble with breaker-box GFCI's was also mentioned previously, so consider my posting another vote for putting the GFCI in the breaker box and not the outlet box.)