Gobies and microfauna ?

[ReneM]

Hiya all!

I am a newbie in the SW world and have just been given my first gobie, a feathered dragonet. Saltwaterfish.com says they eat microfauna. I have found that these mean protozoa/nematodes... are these going to be in my tank already or is tehre something I should buy? He seems to be happily scavaging along the bottom, but I want to be sure he's getting what he needs.

Thanks!
Rene

 

[ReneM]

Hmmm I was wrong he is a starry dragonet... are these guys in the goby family.. one site says yes, another seems to say no... ?

 

[returnofsid]

Hi Rene and welcome!!! Good to see you over here!

If you're referring to Synchiropus stellatus , (Starry Dragonet), it is not an actual Goby. They're a different species, and commonly called Scooter Blenny, though they aren't a true Blenny either. Dragonet is a family, all it's own, with some very specialized food needs. They eat micro fauna in the tank, which is animal life, as apposed to micro flora, which is plant life. So, you're particular Starry Dragonet will eat pods. Copepods, Amphipods, small mysis shrimp and other tiny Zooplankton in the tank.

They need a very mature tank with LOTS of live rock. They usually won't eat foods that we offer them, and instead need to hunt and peck at the live rock, eating what grows naturally, in our tanks. Because of this, I wouldn't recommend one in any tank less than a 46 or 55. You need this amount of live rock, in order for their natural food to reproduce, in a high enough quantity for them to be sustained.

It's also important to NOT have any other fish that will compete for the same food source. Since Dragonets are SLOW and deliberate eaters, other fish will out compete with them, for the same food source. Common fish that will create problems are, a lot of wrasses, hog fish, and other small carnivorous fish.

Scooter Blennies have the same needs as Mandarin Gobies (also not a true Goby) aka Mandarin Dragonet. You'll find a lot more information on Mandarin Dragonets, online, than you will Scooter Blenny. Since the care and needs are almost identical, if you find information on Mandarins, it'll carry over to the Scooter.

PLEASE, ignore all the sites that tell you this fish will do fine in a 20 gallon aquarium. They wanna sell you a fish.

Here's some great information.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mandarins.htm
http://hubpages.com/hub/Mandarin-Fish

 

[ac7av]

Hay ReneM
Welcome
Returnofsid is correct on all points.
If you do not know if your tank has what it need to thrive then you probably don’t have any or enough.
How old is your setup?
You can also buy reef pods, arctic pods and so on to put in the tank but its not cheep to put enough in the tank to sustain a fish like that until a population of them starts thriving in your tank.
Please tell us all about your tank and what’s in it so we can better help you with this fish.
On a side not this type of fish is not a beginner type of a fish. Its better suited for a stable mature tank of 6 months to a year at minimum.

 

[ReneM]

Hey

Ok long story short... I was given two critters in early May for my FW tank... and they were SW. The store refused to take them back.. So, I set up an emergency home in a 10gal, got some live rock, and prayed. Nearly two months later they are still alive (although the anemone is concerning me).

Since I was not ready/expecting this venture at this point in life, I have had to try to make do on some things and had looked all over for a bigger tank I could afford. One step at a time here for me unfortunately.

A week or so ago I got a 45gal hex and set it up, added about 15-20lbs of live rock, and let it go. It appears to have peaked on ammonia and the nitrites/nitrates are doing their thing. I'm not sure if that means the cycling is already well on it's way, but hoping

Since my 10 gal was doing well and my 45gal was bought and being readied, my kids wanted to buy me a few fish for surprises... I gave them a list of fish that would be suitable (small, peaceful, hardy) and one I listed was a goby... they brought me back a small yellow angel, a b&w clown, and the starry (thinking he was a goby). So here I am again I guess with fish I shouldn't have.

I guess since my tanks are new it would probably be best for me to buy copepods? He does seem to be munching on something all over the tank. But I want to make sure it's enough. I don't mind putting in the extra work to be sure he is getting a decent diet. I may be broke lol and may have to slowly buy the elements for my SW set up, but I'm not short on putting in the work. So if you have any ideas on how I can best take care of him in this situation I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
Rene

PS...
I have standard aquarium lighting in my tanks, but I know I need to upgrade this and will when I can.

 

[ac7av]

I had a feeling thats what happened. We’ve all gotten things we shouldn’t have at the time but it just happens. I just want to help you get threw the tuff part of, what do I do now?

Those guys will go around pecking at the rocks all the time but if your tank was just set up for a week now there is not enough food and the fish will probably starve unless measures are taken to provide an adequate food source. You can buy, borrow, or grow out your own colonies of pods and the sort easily but until the tank is mature to sustain its own population you will have to put sum in the tank regularly.

Another option is to try some dry food. I here it is possible to get them to eat dry or frozen food but I don’t know how this is done or if you can train all of them to do this or not.

A third options would be to have someone keep it in there system until yours is up and running and has a large population of pods for it.

If your are planning on getting corals then upgrading the lighting would be required but if you just plan on having fish and live rock, regular aquarium lights work just fine and you will have less algae problems down the road with standard fresh water aquarium lighting.

 

[returnofsid]

If your tank isn't finished cycling, adding these fish to the tank, will be really stressful to them, and prolong your cycle. Even though it's too small for these fish, I'd suggest adding these fish to the 10 gallon, until you're sure your 45 is cycled.

Try frozen Cyclopeeze. Sometimes, they'll eat it, usually they won't. Buy bottles of live Tiger Pods and dump them in the tank.

Oh and watch it closely around that anemone. It's usually suggested that Dragonets and anemones not be housed in the same tank, although I've done it, with no problems. Dragnets are such slow, deliberate swimmers, that they can be caught and ate, by an anemone.

 

[ReneM]

They are in the 10gal waiting for the 45 to get up to speed... I am excited, but not that excited!

I was told that I could gauge it like one inch of fish per gallon... I might have seven inches of fish in the 10g so far. The anemone (as predicted) is not faring well. I am going to post a pic later of tanks and the anemone, but since I was given one bleached out I guess I can't expect much. Still, would hate to see him go.

 

[ReneM]

Here is a pic of my two tanks... the 10gal was my first, got it going early May... the 45gal is my step up tank, set up last weekend.

(I hate the hokey decorations.. but grandkids do that to you I guess lol!)

 

[returnofsid]

The 1" of fish/gallon is extremely wrong. That's a general rule of thumb, for freshwater. There's a similar rule, for saltwater, but it's actually 1" per 10 gallons. Even that really doesn't work. It's much more dependent on the type of fish and a lot of other variables. However, I'd not put more than 1 fish in a 10 gallon tank, at all. In your circumstances, you really have no other choice, as your 45 probably isn't ready yet. If at all possible, I'd suggest returning the latest fish purchased, back to the LFS and waiting for your 45 to be ready. Even once the 45 is ready, the fish you have will likely max it out.

 

[ReneM]

Well crud... I got that from a SW forum! And, well as you know from our previous discussions, this pet shop does not take back good/well fish. And it's the only shop within 50 miles that sells SW fish that look healthy.

I won't add more in... save that for the dream tank of my future lol

 

[Dalbery]

Everyones advise is spot on so far. I'd add that you should only add one fish at a time and give your tank 2 or 3 weeks to adjust to the added bio-load. What do you have for lighting? Your 45 gallon is very deep. It will take a strong light to get enough par to the bottom of that. I'd be looking for much more live rock as well. Welcome and good luck. Become friends with the search function. There is so much to learn and it's all here somewhere.

 

[ac7av]

Part of the issue that is going to limit the number of fish you can have in your 45 is that it is a tall tank. It probably has no more surface area then the 10 gallon you have. You are going to have a heck of a time with the filter you have on there too. Not really the best thing for a salt water tank, even just for fish. Better would be to use the under gravel type. I would recommend you use the 10 as a refrugium and sump, get a small U tube overflow box and small return pump like a Maxijet 1200 and at least a skimmer to put in the sump or a good hang on the tank skimmer. What this will do is increase your overall water volume and increase the surface area for gas exchange and give you a place to put your heater and filters with out cluttering up the nice display tank.

These few items don’t have to be expensive and even new a maxijet 1200 is less then $35 most places and I’ll bet you could buy a new U tube overflow box for the same or find them used on your local Craig’s list or some other classified ad, the simple plumbing that would be needed would be available at any hardware store or farmer supply. Probably less then $30 for everything including clamps hoses and what ever connectors you think you need.

If you did this I would say you could put a few more fish in the tank. all the fish would have to be small fish, all smaller then the lemon angle. Maybe some firefish, lawnmower, watchman goby, smaller typs of damsel fish.

But first things firs. Got to get that 45 ready for fish.

 

[ac7av]

By the way, a cheep way to go with the light on that tank is a clip on out door light fixture. They are usually green and water resistant. You can buy at home depot, and the 6500k PAR38 compact florescent flood lights. A 28 watt or 36 watt would do a great job of lighting that tank for under $10 for both pieces. No one would ever know it wasn’t reef lighting if you built a hood around the top.

 

[Dalbery]

ac7av,
Won't the 6500k par38 be promoting algae? That's what a lot of us use for our fuge's. A par38 LED would work good. Fixture is cheap. Bulb is $80-$130.

 

[ac7av]

Yes and no. Now I am definitely am no expert in this subject but in my reading I have found that for maximum coral growth happens in that spectrum. Also for a tank of that dimension, if one was to put a normal type of PC bulb, without a really good reflector and much more expensive I mite ad light bulb, you would probably not get as much light to the bottom of the tank as using a flood light like this. Your other option is to use a HQI pendent, but again very high $ amount with that.

The reason I recommended the use of this type of setup was the $ factor. In the earlier post this is a factor for this setup and for the fish that will be in this setup. With this light it will be possible to grow algae like in our refrugiums in the main tank. It will look nice and help the pod population for the fish that are the question in this thread. For a tank like this on a budget and to quickly get a tank that will be able to support a dragonet. Macro algae are cheep and easy to come by and some times free from people that are thinning out there systems. It grows fast and some looks very nice.

 

[ReneM]

Thank you for the great advice! I have a lot of work and homework to do... when I get it all set up I'll post a pic.

Thanks again!
Rene