Gorgonian Purchasing Question

[Paul B]

I agree with Anthony that non photosynthetic gorgs are not likely to survive in a typical tank longer than a year. I also agree with him that polyp extention means nothing except the animal is looking for food. I have a very old tank full of gorgonians (photosynthetic) and they all do well and grow nicely but in the past I have had all types of gorgs and none of the non- lived very long. They always eat because the polyps will close on anything but what they are "eating" may not necessarilly keep them alive. The polyps will close on any stimulus. Also I have been a diver almost 40 years and I saw a lot of gorgs in the sea, they always seem to live in strong current, current that you can not imitate in a tank and even if you could, there would not be the proper food passing these beautiful animals 24/7. I have seen some in such strong currect that for me, swimming was impossable but I could hang on long enough to see gorgs vibrating as the current swept past. They also always grow perpendicular to the current.
You can see some in this picture, for some reason the purple gorg in this picture is very healthy and I even fragged it and have a few of them growing but the very skinny wispy purple ones don't do well at all, I don't have any of those (but I did.
Have a great day.
Paul

 

[Anthony Calfo]

The photosynthetic Pterogorgia is a very fine choice for aquarium use/keeping.

The Diodogorgia nodulifera is dismal... frankly dismal for aquarium use.

And you must understand my friend... that looking online at unqualified aquarium hobby sites or mfgs that say "gorgonians" eat phyto is about as accurate as saying "mammals eat meat." The group of organisms that we call "gorgonians" runs such a wide gamut in polyp size, preay and particle preferences and diet range wildly... just wildly (bacteria, floc, nanoplankters of numerus varieties and sizes/types)

Worse still... with anemones and gorgonians, especially, folks commonly cite that "yeah.... but the X ate X." But you must remember that these polyps are sightless animals responding to feel, proteins, etc. And just because the sightless response is to pull it in does not mean they actually digest it.

The majority instead release it hours later (often after dark) and subsequently starve to death

I am not aware of a single reference to Diodogorgia nodulifera specific nutrition.

Heehee... still not trying to give you a hard time (but sounding so), yet you are hitting all the sour notes that I hear over and over again as rationizations for keeping these gorgonians... and I am nearly certain yours will starve to death in less than one year. The/any increase in algae settlement on the branches is a key indicator of the beginning of the end. Maybe 2 months away... more likely 4-6months away. But it is a matter of time most likely.

 

[Electrokate]

Nice growth Paul! Hi everyone. Becky, I have to say leave those LFS gorgonians alone, that just pisses me off. I worked at a store and know how that ordering goes, it's just crazy. Of course sometimes you submit an order to Indonesia and they take it as a suggestion list or a place to start... then you get really weird things like filefish and gorgonians. Maybe it's not the shop's fault. One would think if they supply a steady stream of skeletons they would learn not to order them.
The result of all of them crashing is not just the death of the gorgonian, but gorgonians are highly highly toxic and can kill other creatures as they die. How do the other coral in the shop's tank look, are they ok? Just curious... The pharmaceutical industry is all over gorgonians because of their toxins. Cancer research, I read. I also read anything from the Pacific is probably not photosynthetic.
Like you I have a ribbon gorgonian and my friend has 2, we ordered them from Reeftopia. These haven't been a problem as apparently they are photosynthetic and not picky eaters. Only trouble is if you have low flow or an algae outbreak preventing them from shedding. Ours have been in captivity over a year, are growing, but only when under halide bulbs. I have had 2 non photosythetic gorgonians and they died as predicted. Stupid me, I feel bad about that. When the diodogorgia died I also started losing sps so I tossed it out before it fully disintegrated in case of toxins as any fragging just resulted in more tissue loss. It had grown for a while over 9 months and doubled in size, then it crashed. Stopped fully opening after about 6 months.
I also have dwarf seahorses though, they are great! Maybe we can swap for unrelated stock at some point.
Kate

 

[Beckmola24]

That's dismal but good to know. At least I know now (early on) to not buy any more non photosynthetic gorgonians... I wish I had known about the non photos being so difficult to keep.

Kate, The LFS I go to has decent specimens of coral and fish. Everything is healthy and happy for the most part. I know 2 of the workers won't even sell stuff to people w/o the proper system for it. They do restrict certain fish to tanks over 600g etc. It's nice to hear that a LFS isn't selling Sohal tangs to Joe Shmo with a 50g. They're a great LFS IMO.

Anthony, I probably am like everyone else in rationalizing keeping gorgononians.... I by no means am an expert here and I take all the advice I can get. I don't claim to know it all, and I love getting advice and will take no offense or feel slighted by chastizing or criticism. I will take it and learn form my mistakes at least in my tank, the gorgonian will have a better chance than at my lfs. At least I feed it on a regular basis. Whether or not it actually eats the food is one thing, but it's being fed.

I will do everything w/in my power to try and feed the diodogorgia nodulifera that I currently have but probably end up with dismal results. Do you know if there is anyone out there doing research on this species of non photosynthetic gorgonians? I would be interested to know what they eat specifically (Just for my future knowledge bank) and why they can be picky about what they eat.

 

[Electrokate]

Considering the pharmaceutical companies are researching gorgonians I bet the info on culturing them will be discovered soon, if it hasn't already. Whether or not they wish to share this info
I wish all stores would resist selling fish that get too large, are inappropriate in other ways. Why do they order batfish at my LFS? Nobody around here has the space for them. There are some otherwise great stores stocking gorgonians which makes the store not great, really.
Kate

 

[morgan]

i think the red/pinks gorgonians speices u were looking for is maybe cavernularia obesa the sea pen? or maybe ditchotella unless u already said that the only oother i can find could be ctenocella valenciennes
maybe the reason these corals dont do so good is because alot of them are from deep waters where theres not much light which would make sesnse why they dont feed off light and why they grow algae in our tanks i had a gorgonian 1 time, bad choice but ex g/f was like thats really nice get it and after reading this think that it was not photo and grew algea on it not that i had the best conditions then but hey my 2 cents
it would of been western australian and eaither of the perth coast region or from rowley shoals which is one of the best reef sturctres in the world and also where most of the corals in my tank cum from the rest are from the barrier reef there is no coral taken from ningaloo which is couple of hunder kms long and full of acros an sps wet dream
anyway enough of my babbling hope i could help
morgs

 

[NaH2O]

Anthony - if someone already has non-photosynthetic and/or photosynthetic gorgonians, or would like to set-up a species tank, what would be the best environment? Should gorgonians be in a high flow area (since Paul B indicated strong currents surrounding gorgs he saw diving). What about lighting for the photosynthetic gorgonians (what would be ideal lighting)? I do understand these would be crude generalizations, as I'm sure various species have different needs.

 

[Anthony Calfo]

no worries... fair question indeed

My advice here would be a tank with heavy but diffused flow (ala stream pumps or large effluent tee manifolds (over 1" outlets). Seek bare minimum 30X turnover... closer to 60X ideally

Keep a DSB or RDSB and sand stir weekly minimum with hope of getting at least some bacteria and detritus into the colum for (perhaps) feeding by gorgs

A phyto reactor overflowing into a rotifer reactor overflowing into the tank would also be very nice (digital timer... small daily overflow)

 

[Beckmola24]

I just wanted to post an update here. After giving it the best possible care, my non-photosynthetic gorgonian still looks great. I've had it around 8 months now. I need to measure, but I think it's actually grown since I purchased it. My purple sea whip has grown 3 new stalks and is also doing great. I feed my tank with oyster eggs, phyto, and Cyclopeeze. I dunno if that is contributing to the success of those gorgonians, but I hope it's helping.

 

[John Henry]

Interesting thread. Thank you all

Becky, any updates?

 

[quibrzif]

Just curious: these, who lost non-photosynthetic gorgonians (Diodogorgia nodulifera, I have red one),
- were most polyps opened at the time of purchase,
- how long they lasted (when died),
- what did you fed, quantity x times a day,
- did you see any new growth, when it stated and stopped, why, in your opinion,
- now did you fight nitrates and phosphates?

I'll post my data too, if there will some interest to the topic.

 

[KRYPTICOL]

Bump for general interest and updates.....
Becky, Gorg still going strong????
Anyone seen any new info on gorgs out there???

 

[quibrzif]

Becky, can you make photos of Diodogorgia in a progress, month after month? I would like to see, how they grow in the other's people tanks. Couldn't find this info on the web.

Mine, in the heavily fed nano-tank, Aug and December photos, should make more recent:

Growth at the base, Aug and Jan:

More fluffy in periods of a good feeding:

Eating the dried cyclop-eezy:

Eating ZoPlan and the smallest particles of mysis (water from defreezing mysis, second change):

The gorgonian is since Aug only, too early to tell.
And have to improve filtration, so far it's difficult to find really quiet filter.

Does anybody else have the Diodogorgia growth?
Any other non-photosynthetic gorgonians (Indo-Pacific)?
Share experience, please.

 

[little fishes]

quiberzif- Great photos-what king of camera/lens? Keep documenting! does it seem to keep the food in? What is your flow rate in the tank? Do you reduce flow for feedings? Target the gorg directly? etc.

Anyone try target feeding the photo synthetic varieties for supplement? If so what foods with what success with what species?

Cheers,
Tracy

 

[Anthony Calfo]

for the more "agreeable" gorgs... super fine zooplankton substitues like cyclop-eeze, coral-frenzy(.com), golden pearls and DTs oyster eggs are all in the ballpark for size and general nutritional value IMO.

I especially like the coral frenzy food as it lists its ingredients and dates thepackage... plus has a mix of zoo and phyto plankters in it. Good stuff... I haven't been excited about seeing a food product like this in years FWIW.

 

[Coral Frenzy]

for the more "agreeable" gorgs... super fine zooplankton substitues like cyclop-eeze, coral-frenzy(.com), golden pearls and DTs oyster eggs are all in the ballpark for size and general nutritional value IMO.

I especially like the coral frenzy food as it lists its ingredients and dates thepackage... plus has a mix of zoo and phyto plankters in it. Good stuff... I haven't been excited about seeing a food product like this in years FWIW.

Hi Anthony,

We just wanted to say thank you for the kind words. It means a great deal coming from somebody like yourself.

We are always striving to make our product better and stand out from the rest.

Have a great day!

 

[Anthony Calfo]

I'm happy to, my friend... and assure you that my comments about products are quite frank. All, as does yours, stand on their own merits... for better or worse. You've done a good job (quality, dating and ingreedients list that few other mfgs are bold enough to do). Kudos.