Heating cold water

[DonW]

I'm thinking about a outdoor water tank for water changes. I assme in the winter it will get pretty close to freezing. Any one know how to figure out what size heater will be required to heat very cold water back up to 80. 50 gallons up to 80 in less than a hour probably with a starting temp of around 35 at the lowest.
I'd say 2000w would be a affordable project, but would it be enough.

Thanks
Don

 

[MikeS]

Trying to picture what you are doing here Don....

Any particular reason you want to keep the water tank outdoors? Also will you be trying to maintain a warm temperature in the tank, or will you just want to heat it up prior to use?

In both intstances, a waterbed heater comes to mind....they heat pretty quickly, not breakable, fully submergible, ect....

MikeS

 

[DonW]

Trying to picture what you are doing here Don....

Any particular reason you want to keep the water tank outdoors? Also will you be trying to maintain a warm temperature in the tank, or will you just want to heat it up prior to use?

In both intstances, a waterbed heater comes to mind....they heat pretty quickly, not breakable, fully submergible, ect....

MikeS

I want the tank (160 to 300g) outside because thats the only place to put it to keep the wife happy. My wood shop is 50+ ft away from the house so no garage.
I would just refill the sump with the cold sw and fire up the big heaters long enough to get it up to 80 and turn the return pump back on. Granted most of the year its not all that cold, we barly feeze the tops of puddles here so not that bad.

Don

Don

 

[KRG]

Call any local swimming pool or hot tub dealer and they have tons of heaters for all size enclosures. I shopped a lot of swimming pool dealers this summer for our pool. There is a lot of stuff there you could incorporate into aquaria.

btw, I loved the typo, it made me giggle !

 

[Murfman]

Trying to picture what you are doing here Don....

Any particular reason you want to keep the water tank outdoors? Also will you be trying to maintain a warm temperature in the tank, or will you just want to heat it up prior to use?

In both intstances, a waterbed heater comes to mind....they heat pretty quickly, not breakable, fully submergible, ect....

MikeS

Mike, most waterbed heaters are pads that lay between the matress and wood bottom. They are NOT submersible.

 

[MikeS]

ok...I got it I think...

Krystee's idea is a good one, a swimming pool or hot tub heater would be a great idea plumbed inline with a return pump. The downsides to this as I see it is that they are kinda pricey, and you have the added expense and work of plumbing them inline.

I'm going to stick with a waterbed heater....they heat pretty quickly, you are only talking 160-300 gallons here, I think one would heat it up fairly quickly , and no plumbing issues...just throw it in the tub and plug it in...and cheaper as well....

Also, may not be a bad idea just to leave it plugged in, it's going to be easier to maintain a temperature rather than try to heat up a large amount of cold water quickly....

MikeS

 

[DonW]

ok...I got it I think...

Krystee's idea is a good one, a swimming pool or hot tub heater would be a great idea plumbed inline with a return pump. The downsides to this as I see it is that they are kinda pricey, and you have the added expense and work of plumbing them inline.

I'm going to stick with a waterbed heater....they heat pretty quickly, you are only talking 160-300 gallons here, I think one would heat it up fairly quickly , and no plumbing issues...just throw it in the tub and plug it in...and cheaper as well....

Also, may not be a bad idea just to leave it plugged in, it's going to be easier to maintain a temperature rather than try to heat up a large amount of cold water quickly....

MikeS

No, I'm only heating about 50g at a time. I would move the cold water to the sump then heat only what is in the sump. Its just a 50 waterchange.

Don

 

[MikeS]

Mike, most waterbed heaters are pads that lay between the matress and wood bottom. They are NOT submersible.

Yes they are.....

These things are designed to be waterproof....waterbeds can leak, right? and can you imagine the lawsuits the heater manufaturer would have if they were not waterproof and electocuted somebody? They are submersible....

The local waterbed store here in town has a 125 gallon planted amazon tank in their lobby, and it's heated with a waterbed heater...they do this to show that the heater is #1 waterproof, and #2 will hold a constant temperature....

MikeS

 

[bpiermat]

Maybe this is obvious but, i think you should heat the water as you use it...don't heat the whole tank..try running the water through a coil system that heats the water as it is used.

 

[DonW]

Maybe this is obvious but, i think you should heat the water as you use it...don't heat the whole tank..try running the water through a coil system that heats the water as it is used.

Thats what I've really been getting at all along.

Don

 

[coil1002]

get a tankless water heater

 

[prbhasson]

Maybe you could look into getting a heater coil from an electric hot water heater and incorporating it into your system. it would definately heat the water quicker than a water bed heater. You could also try one of the water on demand systems and that might work for you...

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDU...earchResults.jsp&MID=9876&N=2984+3573&pos=n05

 

[Murfman]

Yes they are.....

These things are designed to be waterproof....waterbeds can leak, right? and can you imagine the lawsuits the heater manufaturer would have if they were not waterproof and electocuted somebody? They are submersible....

The local waterbed store here in town has a 125 gallon planted amazon tank in their lobby, and it's heated with a waterbed heater...they do this to show that the heater is #1 waterproof, and #2 will hold a constant temperature....

MikeS

Makes sense, now I know what to look for next time I am shopping yard sales.

 

[Krish]

Don... Get one or two of these 1,000 watt lights and when the temp hits 80F in like 3 seconds, have them automatically shut off with one of your DIY controllers Other than that, heaters and the Bahamas don't work well so couldn't say...Good luck though!.

http://images.google.bs/imgres?imgu.../images?q=work+lights&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&sa=G

 

[Meche]

You'll need this much energy.

20 Megawatt*sec
or
330.6 killowatt*min
or
5500 watt*hrs

If you wanna heat 35deg water to 80deg in one hour you'll need 5500watts.

If you wanna do it in 1sec give me a call, I'll drive out to see that siht!!! :lol:

 

[MikeS]

Makes sense, now I know what to look for next time I am shopping yard sales.

:lol: Don't necessarily think I'd use one in my tank, but maybe a good option to heat water in a seperate tank quickly and cheaply...:lol:

MikeS

 

[burning2nd]

i think i most cost effective way, will be fire.

proprain, water boiler? maybe even a stove of sort.

the quickest would be 1.21 jiga watts from the daloran, ( meag watt heater)

 

[mcvicker]

The specific heat of sea water is 8260 J/Gal degF. So for 50 gallons raised 50 degrees it would take 8260 x 50 x 50 = 20650000 J so 1 hour would be a 5736 W heater (20650000 / 3600). A 2000 W heater would take three hours or a starting temp of 64 degrees to work.

I would be very wary of inline water heaters or home water heater elements. We use a lot of DI at my work and DI water (or saltwater) will destroy most units very quickly. We use Teflon exchange coils whenever handling DI water due to it's corrosive nature.
-chris

 

[DonW]

The specific heat of sea water is 8260 J/Gal degF. So for 50 gallons raised 50 degrees it would take 8260 x 50 x 50 = 20650000 J so 1 hour would be a 5736 W heater (20650000 / 3600). A 2000 W heater would take three hours or a starting temp of 64 degrees to work.

I would be very wary of inline water heaters or home water heater elements. We use a lot of DI at my work and DI water (or saltwater) will destroy most units very quickly. We use Teflon exchange coils whenever handling DI water due to it's corrosive nature.
-chris

Thanks, that is exactly what I was looking for.

Don

 

[Brenden]

Don if it helps any I have a mag 36 in my 300 gal WC tank. It heats good and really stirs the water.