Help critique my system

[zenn]

I saw someone else did a post like this the other day and I thought it was great. Help critique my system. Feel free to be as blunt and honest as you'd like...

I have a 75g reef ready tank with MegaFlow plumbing that goes down to my 30g sump. The sump has three chambers and a bubble trap. The first chamber is where my Remora (mj 1200) sits and is filled with rock rubble. Then there's the bubble trap which has the heaters(dual 250w glass heaters) in them(wierd I know). The next chamber, which is in the middle, has my fuge with sand and chaeto in it. The fuge is nothing more than a ice cube holder box from Target that i drilled and cut to fit in the sump so that water would flow from the bubble trap right into it and out the holes i drilled in it. It's been working nicely although i would say it's undersized. Underneath the ice cube holder fuge is my Mag 9.5 return pump. The last chamber in the sump is a ro/di holding tank for top offs. It takes up half the sump (15g). I'm planning on turning this into the new fuge and using actuators to do top offs.

The water is returned from the sump back to the display tank through two flexible nozzels that point to the left and middle of the tank. The only other powerhead in the display tank is a modded maxijet 1200 on a swirl stien i created. This sits on the right side of the tank.

Inside the tank, I have approx. 120lbs of Live Rock. The rock has been placed to creat caverns and overhands to give fish plenty of places to hide. The rock is also very pourous and houses lots of life. There is a 4-5 inch Deep Sand Bed in the tank.

Above the tank, there are two 250w metal halide lights, two 55 watt PC actinics, and blue LED's. The lighting cycle is as follows.
9am - actinics on
10am - halides on
8pm- halides off
9pm - actinics off
LED's on 24/7
There is also a 4 inch fan that comes on with the actinics that blows air into the canopy to help with cooling.

Livestock in the tank includes a yellow tang, coral beauty, mandarin, yellow goby, pair of o. clowns, and pair of green chromis. There are lots of hermits, and turbo snails. There's a large brittle starfish. Also, there is a pair of peppermint shrimp, one porclean crab and a pistol shrimp (hitchiked on the LR). There are two urchins as well that i'm trying to get rid of.

I use RO/DI water to fill the tank. I do biweekly 15-20g water changes. I dose kalk daily through my auto top off. I clean the skimmer once per week and trim back the chaeto every other week or so. The only carbon i use is two Chemi-Pure bags. There are no filter pads or sock filters.

Coral includes a mix of soft, lps and sps. I'm moving away from the soft and adding more lps and sps. I plan on still keeping a few softies when i'm done though.

This thread is getting long so i'll stop there for now. What do you guys think?

 

[Anthony Calfo]

how many corals?

how old is the mandarin?

Do remove the rubble in the sump... far more harm than good IMO

 

[zenn]

Current Corals:

Xenia, 2 monti cap frags, 1 hydnophora frag, 1 monti digi frag, 2 toadstool leather frags, 3 kinds of zoos, 1 hammer coral frag, 1 torch coral, 1 candy cane coral, 1 crocea clam, 1 BTA, 1 octopus leather frag, 1 devils hand frag, green and blue shrooms. (i'm looking to get rid of the devils hand and the shrooms).

I've had the mandarin for about 6 months now.

What's the reason for removing the rubble. I had many folks on another forum tell me that rock rubble in the sump was highly desireable.

Thanks!

 

[Scooterman]

The rock rubble will hold detritus just like a trap, no good. You have lots of fish but I see you also change a good bit of water so that keeps it in balance, sounds good, show us some pics.

 

[redrooster]

It sounds very good. I was the other one was asked for a critique and your setup is eerily similiar to mine. Same size tank, same lights, about the same amount of fish and mix of coral. The only difference is you use a sump and carbon. I have had real good success, so I figure you are good to go as well. I too am looking to remove some softies and replace with LPS/SPS. I am going to keep a couple of my favorite zoos though.

 

[Anthony Calfo]

with all due respect, my friend... this loks like a newbie tank with a heavy does of newbie mistakes (too many corals/fishes... too fast for starters) and destined to have serious issues (nuisance algae from bioload unless aggressively managed - read: huge (50%+) weekly water changes, superb (daily) skimmate collection, etc). Then there is the issue of allelopathy from this extremely unnatural and incompatible mix... to great for even a large tank, and frankly impossible for long term success in a smaller tank.

Unless changes are made... this tank like most of the kind will suffer a serious problem(s) in the next 12-18 months if not (much) sooner.

Specifically... the extreme noxious allelopathic exudates of the Alcyoniid leathers (two toadstools plus the devils hand) and site competion from the zoanthids. Then the addition/brutal really, contact aggression from the Euphylliids (octopus and hammer).

Honestly... I cannot think of a more incompatible mix unless you added green star polyp and/or corallimorphs.

My strong advice my friend is to not spend another dollar on a coral yet for two reasons:

1) they physically will not fit - you must reckon the size of these corals with just a little bit of growth in the next 12-18 months, when really... they can have a lot of growth in that time to the extent that stocking at even a modest 1 per 10 galls does not leave enough room. And so... you get the diseases and "mystery" die offs from the chemical soup of a tank stocked with too much and too fast. Yes - you see fellow reefers and LFS with crowded tanks... but (again) without extraordinary maintenance (frequent water changes at with/at LFS shops from sales), these tanks fail in time or the hobbyist gets out of the hobby sooner form frustration overall (the statistical lifespan of a newbie in the hobby as per industry stats happens to be be 18 months. The last 6-10 months being a miserable struggle with nuisance algae and/or dieing corals
2) Please buy a book like Julian Sprungs Oceanogrpahic series "Corals" This is a concsie guide that shows coral aggression and placement on the reef to help youmake more compatible mixings

I worry for you my friend... your tank and style fits the profile of a typical garden reef aquarium which is IMO near certain to fail in less than 2 years. Thats killing a lot of animals over time and making you an unhappy reefer.

Please let us help. In addition to the aggressive maintenace (big weekly water changes)... please focus keenly on skimmer performance and reviewing your species list (see Biotope info). For these three topics and so much more, please take the time to look at threads for these topics under "discussions" (the post of alphabetical entries) in the sticky thread called "Fav links" atop my forum here.

No more buying for now please (I know it does not look overstocked now )... more reading and questions, instead

Best of luck/life

 

[Anthony Calfo]

removal of the Alcyoniid softies is a huge help even short term. And the zoanthids are fairly tolerable as long as you can control their encroachment on others (site competition)

 

[zenn]

with all due respect, my friend... this loks like a newbie tank with a heavy does of newbie mistakes (too many corals/fishes... too fast for starters) and destined to have serious issues (nuisance algae from bioload unless aggressively managed - read: huge (50%+) weekly water changes, superb (daily) skimmate collection, etc). Then there is the issue of allelopathy from this extremely unnatural and incompatible mix... to great for even a large tank, and frankly impossible for long term success in a smaller tank.

Unless changes are made... this tank like most of the kind will suffer a serious problem(s) in the next 12-18 months if not (much) sooner.

Specifically... the extreme noxious allelopathic exudates of the Alcyoniid leathers (two toadstools plus the devils hand) and site competion from the zoanthids. Then the addition/brutal really, contact aggression from the Euphylliids (octopus and hammer).

Honestly... I cannot think of a more incompatible mix unless you added green star polyp and/or corallimorphs.

My strong advice my friend is to not spend another dollar on a coral yet for two reasons:

1) they physically will not fit - you must reckon the size of these corals with just a little bit of growth in the next 12-18 months, when really... they can have a lot of growth in that time to the extent that stocking at even a modest 1 per 10 galls does not leave enough room. And so... you get the diseases and "mystery" die offs from the chemical soup of a tank stocked with too much and too fast. Yes - you see fellow reefers and LFS with crowded tanks... but (again) without extraordinary maintenance (frequent water changes at with/at LFS shops from sales), these tanks fail in time or the hobbyist gets out of the hobby sooner form frustration overall (the statistical lifespan of a newbie in the hobby as per industry stats happens to be be 18 months. The last 6-10 months being a miserable struggle with nuisance algae and/or dieing corals
2) Please buy a book like Julian Sprungs Oceanogrpahic series "Corals" This is a concsie guide that shows coral aggression and placement on the reef to help youmake more compatible mixings

I worry for you my friend... your tank and style fits the profile of a typical garden reef aquarium which is IMO near certain to fail in less than 2 years. Thats killing a lot of animals over time and making you an unhappy reefer.

Please let us help. In addition to the aggressive maintenace (big weekly water changes)... please focus keenly on skimmer performance and reviewing your species list (see Biotope info). For these three topics and so much more, please take the time to look at threads for these topics under "discussions" (the post of alphabetical entries) in the sticky thread called "Fav links" atop my forum here.

No more buying for now please (I know it does not look overstocked now )... more reading and questions, instead

Best of luck/life

I appreciate all the advice and help. I think you're speaking from a viewpoint that's mainly concerned with the health of my SPS corals. I must admit, this was what i was trying to get at so thank you for that. I just recently added some sps. I had upgraded lighting in June, and upgraded flow last month all in an effort to prepare my tank for SPS. I'm upgrading to an ASM g2 skimmer this weekend to help with water quality more. I have had 0 nitrates consistantly for the last few months but i know the remora can't do much more on this system.

I have read much of Eric Borneman's book Corals. While i find it extremely helpful, it's not very specific about proper care requirements with every coral.

With the mixing of soft and hard corals, i know they don't mix well. That's one of Borneman's biggest points in his book. I guess my question is at this point, what softies can i continue to keep that i currently have that won't harm my sps in the long run? Same for my LPS? Also, I do have green star polyps

 

[redrooster]

I don't want to put any words in Anthony's mouth, but I again I have a very similiar setup and asked him the same question about 2 weeks ago, so I will try to regurgitate what he said. The most toxic softies seem to be green star polyps and nepthea. Cabbabge leather is another big culprit, as well as shrooms, and toadstools. I'm sure he can elaborate further on this topic.

When I intially responded I was looking mainly at your equipment which I think is OK. I did notice you had a few more fish than me, and I feel that I am on the high end for a 75 with 3 med fish and 4 small fish. I am getting rid of one of the medium ones to see what effect that has.

I also have the toxic soup mix of corals that you have. In fact I have even more species. My tank has been stable for 3 years with only a few deaths. I have had 4 death experiences. One was from fragging a colt. It killed the colt and my kenya trees died shortly thereafter presumably from some sort of 'tree' coral bacterial infection. I melted a couple zoo's from presumably overlighting. And I have had two 'mystery' deaths. A clam and an acro. I only took one atempt at keeping each of these and I think the toxicity of some of the softies may have been the problem.

On one hand I feel that a couple deaths compared to the many success is a pretty good ratio considering this was my first tank. The colt was fully understandable as it was a lesson learned in fragging. Since then I have had nothing but success and have traded/sold many pieces of overgrowth from my tank. But at the same time 50% of my 'failures' could be attributed to things Anthony is mentioning. Also with a tank setup like we have I would never go 2 weeks without a water change. I have done it once or twice and the tank is never happy about it. I change water every 5-10 days. I don't change a huge amount as Anthony advocates, but it would help.

Many people on here would not advocate setting up a tank the way we have. As such I am going to make some changes like getting rid of my cabbage leather as well as some shrooms. I want to get my tank less toxic before attempting clams or acro again. If you do continue to forge ahead I have a few pieces of advice based on my experience with a coral garden setup.

1) Learn how to frag now. A key to success is going to be keeping the softies in check. If you can't frag your going to find yourself in a position where you need to start removing whole pieces to keep the tank from getting overwhelmed and that will mean you are leaving $$'s on the table as far as selling/trading goes. You get more for 2 medium pieces than you do for 1 LG piece.

2) Get rid of some of your fish. The water is going to be hard enough to keep clean. Every fish in there is working agaisnt you. Even if you can keep the water quality up the fish constantly disturb the corals. Not so much the little fish, but the medium ones. Every time the coral opens/closes it is using enery and missing out on energy it could have gotten had it been open the whole time.

3)Stay away from anything that sloughs its skin!! I believe the toadstools do this. Cabbage leather definitely does. That stuff can get caught up on another piece of coral and mess it up bad.

4) When you start adding SPS try Montipora first. As mentioned I had no success with Acro, but I have a large piece on Monti that I have had 8 months and is doing great. I have heard that they and poccillipora? are the easiest SPS to keep, and Acro the hardest. I have also Pavona which has spread. It's a quick grower for SPS. But I don't really see it for sale much.

5) Don't make sudden wholesale changes if your current setup has been working. Don't get me wrong the people on here are truly experts. I have read a lot of Anthony's and Boomer's posts and they know there sh*t. But you are going to get a lot of differing advice from different people. Many people have viable systems that are totally different from one another. If there was only 1 way, we would all the the answers and would all be doing the same thing!! But at the same time just because it has worked till now doesn't mean it will work indefinately. It often takes months for coral to die or really start to show it weakness. I have confidence in my system based on its track record, but I have a bit of skepticism based on all these guys experiences.

6) Feed phyto, zoo, baby brine and oyster eggs. The more of these you can provide the better. If you have a diverse range of species you need a diverse range of foods. If you are doing SPS only you can skip the phyto. If you do only softies you can skip the zoo. I have 'experimented' over time with giving some/all/ or none of these and my tank does best if I feed all. That's part of the extra hassle of this type of setup. Each type of coral needs something different so to keep them all healty and happy it helps to feed everything.

Hope this helps, good luck.

 

[zenn]

so get rid of all softies, what about the LPS? Do i need to get rid of that too?

And all do respect, but there's no need to be rude and call me a noob makeing noob mistakes. Nobody wants to be a noob and i sure don't like people professing i'm a noob when i've never met them. I have been in the hobby for just over a year. So that makes me new, however, i've been keeping fish (salt and fresh) my entire life, but just last year decided to really dive into reef keeping. Noob might be too strong of a word is all i'm saying. I don't think it is helping out in this discussion either. I'm looking for solutions here and not a lecture.

 

[jezzeaepi]

"I'm looking for solutions here and not a lecture."

Personally I see lots of people offering up solutions. Unfortunetly they involve giving up certain corals which I wouldn't want to do either. I would set up a second tank if you really want to get in to sps, otherwise stick to some of the easier ones and you may be succesfull(i.e. montipora, pocllipora, pavona). If your not succesfull though you'll know why.

 

[zenn]

I'm not going to get into a argument about who meant what. I really just need some help at this point. I just want people to be respectful at the same time and not assume I'm a complete moron. By doing so, we end up spending a lot of time covering things that we're already all aware of. So I'd like to put some concrete suggestions together thus far. Thanks redrooster for the great suggestions. The theories are:

1. I have one too many fish and should probably get rid of the coral beauty.
2. I should get rid of all my leathers, xenia, shrooms and GSP and keep the zoos away from eachother.
3. Do weekly water changes (?)

Giving up the hobby because I'm doomed to failure is not an option in case anyone was wondering.

 

[Scooterman]

Seems like you know what is needed to be done, now it is up to you to develop a plan with goals. Good thing you can always sell your good corals & prep your tank up for hard coral later when the time & tank is ready. Post us some pictures to see what things look like now. You can't get better advice than Anthony, so if this is your goals you have a great start.

 

[zenn]

The tank as it sits today.

That's some of the pics i've taken in the last couple of months.


PS: I was in lafayette last week on business. I should look you up next time i'm there so i can check out the setup.

 

[zenn]

Some more...

 

[Scooterman]

Very nice photos, one of these days I want to have something to take pictures like that I'm still building my new tank!

I think If you really want a SPS dominate reef, you can achieve it but you will need to tweak a few things to really do well in the long run.

Next time you come down let me know, you can look at my project!

 

[spongebob lover]

you got a very nice tank dood.
I think you're getting some good advice here.
For me, water changes is one big thing, as long as you do your water change every week and run carbon you'll be fine.
I'm still learning a lot about this hobby so i can't give you to muc advice more than water changes, making sure you always test your water, run carbon, skim, clean your equipment such as powerheads skimmer and such and i think that's about it.

 

[bobt2]

thats got to be a tbs tank!

 

[zenn]

what's a tbs tank?

 

[LakeEd]

Zenn,

I think you are off to a great start here! You've just received some excellent information to think about with your system.

One of the best things about Reef Frontiers is that people aren't here to put down anyone... just to help by giving the information requested. As was stated earlier, there is always more than one way to skin a cat, and many different techniques work in our hobby, for many different people.

It is up to us to get as much information about this hobby, weigh the various methods... then use what will work for US, in OUR systems. Knowing the limitations of our system is a HUGE step towards keeping all of the animals under our care happy and healthy.

I'm looking forward to hearing the progression of your tank in the future. Keep those pictures comming!!!