Help!! My live rock is dying

[mrsdmilkman]

I am a new reef aquarium owner. Last Wednesday I went and purchased an aquarium and some live rock. I set up my tank on Friday and added some small fishon saturday(2 green chromis 2 clowns and a blue neon) Today however the pretty pink algae that was on the live rock when I bought it is turning white. my ph is at 8.0 and my ammonia is a little high due to the fact that my tank has not had time to cycle yet. Any advice?

Thanks Vicki

 

[Illusion]

Give it time.. Most LR will bleach out after being put in the tank during the cycle... The spores will still remain and the rock will color up in time once the tank cycles and everything starts growing... I would also recommend removing the fish to the LFS until the tank cycles as odds are your going to loose those as well depending on the ammonia and Nitrite levels.. Remember any reading in either Amm. Or Rites is enough to kill fish..

HTH<
James

 

[mojoreef]

Vicki James has given you some good info. On a side note I think it would be wise to take those fish back to the store. Your tank is about to cycle and things are going to get pretty toxic in thier for a few weeks to a month, the chances of the fish surviving are very low if at all. The die off from the rock should be enough to start the cycle by itself, you may want to through a small peice of frozen shrimp in to garrantee it.


take care


Mike

 

[mrsdmilkman]

cycling tank

Iwas told to buy a few hardy fish and add them to the aquarium and that it would help the tank to cycle, Is this wrong? was I misinformed?

Vicki

 

[Illusion]

It is how things used to be done in the olden day... Sacrafice the lives of a few fish to cycle the tank... Now a days people use Raw shrimp or 100% pure household ammonia as it was Cruel to cycle the tank with the fish as its really harmful to the fish and most die during the cycle... I was told the same and started my tank with a couple damsels... Lost all but 1 damsel.. would never do that again... Most LFS will say that as they sell the fish.. No warranty it dies and you buy more fish makes more money in their pocket... Its not the wrong way persay its the more costly inhumane way of doing things..

james

 

[mojoreef]

Vicki that is the old way to cycle a tank and will work, but it puts alot of stress on those fish and really is not needed. The concept of cycling is the build up of bacteria that reduce waste or something dead. So you have a choice, put fish in and cycle via thier waste and subject them to the toxic enviroment or put something that is dead already (ie some shrimp meat and/or dieing stuff off the LR). Both will do the exact same thing in the same time period.

Alot of LFS do tell folks to do it the way you were told, some out of ignorance some on purpose.

hope it helps


Mike

 

[cwcross]

I second the advice given below. It is good advice

However, I find it strange that you have pink rock in a new tank? Is all your rock pink? If so, this means you are starting your tank with very well established LR. If this is the case, it is possible that your tank may NOT cycle or that your cycle will be very minimal. I'm not suggesting you leave the fish in, but it is possible that you are out of the norm here.

What sort of rock did you buy, what is its history and how did you set it up?

I set up my tank with 5 year old premium LR, excepting two pieces of nearly cured carribean with a slight smell. It did not cycle and I had fish in it within 10 days. They never stressed or anything. All are still with me except the ones that the ich got a few months ago. Never detected ammonia or nitrites or nitrates. However, some of my corralline did turn a little white. Also some sponges died off slightly (from the move mostly).

Sincerely...Collin

 

[Illusion]

Exactly Collin... I just assumed the tank was in a cycle because of

my ph is at 8.0 and my ammonia is a little high due to the fact that my tank has not had time to cycle yet.

Its very possible that if you bought enough LR that was cured your tank would have little to no cycle... I personally had the same experience as Collin however I had sps in there at about 3 weeks after the tank was setup... So the history of the liverock would also play a part in the matter as well..

James

 

[mojoreef]

Fresh Lr can come corraline covered to


Mike

 

[NaH2O]

Welcome to Reef Frontiers!!! Hope you enjoy the forum!

All good advice above. Follow along with your water parameters to determine when the cycling process is at the point where livestock can be added (0 ammonia, 0 nitrites). If you add a piece of shrimp to the tank, stick it in a pantyhose, so you can simply pull it out as it begins to degrade.

Here are a couple of threads for you:

Nitrogen Cycle Explained
Back to Basics ~Live Rock~

 

[Mauisreef]

Welcome To Reef Frontiers!

Fresh Lr can come corraline covered to


Mike

This is very true.
I got a couple boxes of really nice rock that was covered then died off.
When I saw it I thought "Cool, won't take long to cycle, it's so fresh." Wrong! :lol:
I always used those little clam dudes from the deli at the super market to cycle my tanks. Works great.
They are alive most of the time. Then they die off. Got a couple little tiny crabs with them once too that are still alive in one of my fish only tanks. But like Nikki said I too put these in that plastic bag stuff that the pastashio nuts come in instead of nylons. That way if the little clams dont die I can take them out without tearing the whole tank apart to find them. It's a real pain in the okolee if you have a sand bed of any depth. Trust me I have been through it.
I dont feel as bad when these die instead of fish.
Oh yeah..............Where are my manners?
Welcome To Reef Frontiers Mrsdmilkman!


Good Luck

Maui

 

[mrsdmilkman]

I bought my live rock from a local pet store, and it already had pink algae growing on it.


Vicki

 

[mrsdmilkman]

I have a few more questions, hope you all don't mind, Should I not have the light on in my tank? What about the the filter? I have an tetratec (the ones with the heater that fits inside of them)at what point is my ammonia level going to be toxic to the fish? Its registering between 1.0 and 2.0 Fish seem to be fine at this point.

 

[cwcross]

I didn't phrase myself well.

You have to look at the history of the rock. Not its freshness. Even if a rock is cured and covered with corraline, it still may not have the proper colonies of bacteria on it to prevent a cycle. However, if the rock is cured in the presence of a fish stocked tank, or other sources of nutrients then it won't cycle much as it is already cycled. In this case its more like moving a tank rather than starting one.

Certainly though, fresh rock that is dying off will cycle, regardless of how much corraline is on there.

Most rock bought at LFS is in a dark bin with no light and is either cured or fresh or in between. Most I've seen doesn't have much coralline on it. If it comes from the display tank though it can be used to set a tank real fast.

Anyway, if there is a lot of ammonia present the tank is probably cycling as was pointed out. My mistake...C

 

[cwcross]

I have a few more questions, hope you all don't mind, Should I not have the light on in my tank? What about the the filter? I have an tetratec (the ones with the heater that fits inside of them)at what point is my ammonia level going to be toxic to the fish? Its registering between 1.0 and 2.0 Fish seem to be fine at this point.

Generally when you cycle a tank, it is suggested keep the lights off or at least on a very short cycle. That helps the rock to cure faster and you don't get a big buildup of algea in the presence of all the nutrients. Usually when you near the end of a cycle you will see some diatoms start to bloom. They are a brownish/yellowish sort of algea that will grow on your substrate. It won't last long. The diatoms like the nitrate produced at the end of the cycle.

Ammonia itself isn't all that toxic compared to nitrite if I remember correctly. The problem is when the ammonia turns to nitrite. Nitrite is toxic at much lower levels. Even if it doesn't kill them it can cause permanent damage to the fish. If you search on the internet, you can find some toxicity levels. I used to know them but I forgot. Generally you want essentially zero ammonia and nitrites before you introduce fish. However, it really varies drastically from fish to fish. Some fish can tolerate 10x more ammonia than other fish before dying. Damsels for instance are very resistant. Unfortunately, many people don't like damsels in thier tanks because they are hard to get out of a reef and are very aggressive.

Sincerely...Collin

 

[Scooterman]

I just want to say from experience, coming to this web-site is a great start, listing to your LFS may not in most cases. These people are giving great advise & free, with nothing more to gain but a new reefer & a friend.

Welcome to Reef Frontiers Vicki!

 

[MikeS]

Ammonia itself isn't all that toxic compared to nitrite if I remember correctly.

hmmm...everything I've read says ammonia is more toxic, but notes that nitrite is only slightly less toxic....

MikeS

 

[MikeS]

hmmm...everything I've read says ammonia is more toxic, but notes that nitrite is only slightly less toxic....

MikeS

Ok...After I made that "reflex" post I did some checking as I was sure I'd get called to the carpet on this to back it up....

I looked at a lot of different sites....I found about a 50/50% split, half saying ammonia is more toxic, half saying nitrite is more toxic. After reading further, it seems that these toxins affect fish (most of the material I found related to fish only) differently. Ammonia attacks the gills, nitrite attacks the blood. Ammonia generally kills more quickly, but nitrite produces longer lasting more permanent damage in survivors. So I suppose it all depends on the definition of "toxic".....

Mike

 

[NaH2O]

Mike - do you think some are taking into consideration NH4+ (ionized ammonia), which I believe is less harmful than un-ionized ammonia or nitrites?

 

[MikeS]

Actually Nikki, most of the sites I visited did in fact make the distinction between ammonia (NH3) and the relatively harmless ammonium (Nh4)....

Mike