Help w/planning for a calcium reactor

[Blazer88]

I have been using a DIY kalk reactor for a while now and I'm thinking I would greatly benefit from a calcium reactor as I have been adding more SPS to my tank and my calcium never seems to raise above 320'ish. The problem is that I don't really know where to start and these things seem to greatly vary in terms of price. Here are my main questions:

1) Can they be remotely located? I have my current ATO/kalk setup in the closet next to my tank, the smaller the footprint the better. I'm hoping I can fit the calcium setup in there as well and plumb the output through the wall since I don't have room near the sump.

2) Do I need a PH controller? I currently have a PH monitor and I understand that is handy to monitor the PH inside the reactor. I'm not opposed to buying a PH controller, or even a AquaControll Jr., but I'm not sure if that is needed for a calcium reactor.

3) Should I keep my current Kalk reactor and continue to use it?

4) What are some good "budget" units? I don't know the difference between the expensive ($500+) units and ones that range around $250. I'm hoping I can find one that will work well with my current 65G and eventually a 120 if I choose to upgrade.

I'm keeping my eye on the equipment forum as I'm hoping to find a setup for sale locally. I would prefer to make an informed decision so I know what I'm getting myself into. Thanks for any help!

 

[salmonslayer]

Hay blazer. Keep a eye here also. I got mine for $110 shipped/ less co2 and reg. Works great. Good luck
PS If you sell kalk reac put me in line. Thanks/tracy

http://www.pnwmas.org/forums/index.php

 

[bc_slc]

I will take a stab:
1. They can be located remotely, but I would not put it super far away. You will need 1/4" tubing to and from the reactor.
2. a PH controller is nice, but certainly not required. If you already have a PH monitor, I would spend the money on a peristaltic pump. At this point, it would be better bang for the buck.
3. I would continue with the Kalk reactor. Once you have both up and running, you may find that the calcium reactor is less work and you can rope the kalk reactor back some. I personally continue to use both (though I dose Kalk without a reactor) and the Kalk is nice because it keeps the ph in check.
4. I built my own calcium reactor but if I were going to buy one, I would go with a Geo or another off brand. The actual reactor does not have to be that special. Basically you want to make sure it gets good circulation through it and it holds a reasonable amount of media in the space (footprint) you have available. Another option would be to have one of the local acrylic fabricators make one for you. There is no need to spend $500 on a unit, even if you were upsizing to a 300gal tank.

Mat

 

[Blazer88]

Thanks for the reply Mat. What is the peristalic pump for? I'm guessing it's used to slowly add the calcium rich water into the tank. Are these required with all calcium reactors? And I see that many of these reactors have an eheim or similar pump attached to the body. Is this just for internal circulation within the reactor/media? Sorry for these newb questions, I haven't ever really considered one of these before.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Thanks for the reply Mat. What is the peristalic pump for? I'm guessing it's used to slowly add the calcium rich water into the tank. Are these required with all calcium reactors? And I see that many of these reactors have an eheim or similar pump attached to the body. Is this just for internal circulation within the reactor/media? Sorry for these newb questions, I haven't ever really considered one of these before.

The P pump, is as you say, is for measured dosing of the tank from the reacter. Not vital, but helpful especially if not on a controller. The eheim, etc pumps are to keep the water circulating through the media.

 

[Blazer88]

Thanks for the replies so far guys, I think I'm starting to understand how one of these things work. I snagged a picture from the Geo website that shows a pretty good diagram on how it is setup.

-Does the peristaltic pump replace the output reactor valve in this diagram? I'm guessing the P pump would provide a more reliable method to deliver the calcium rich water to the tank, but does the pressure provided from the Eheim really vary that much? Are these little valves easy to adjust if I didn't use a P pump?

-How much water is added to the tank from the reactor? I understand that would vary depending on my calcium usage but I'm wondering how that would affect my top off.

-Does the output from the calcium reactor lower the tank PH? I understand the reactor is supposed to be around 6.5 but I don't know what it would be by the time it reached the tank.

-I'm also curious about the feed pump. Is an aqualifter a better option? A MJ seems like it would provide much more water to the reactor than would be simultaneously leaving so I don't see how that would work. It seems the pressure from the recirc pump would be greater than from the MJ/aqualifter and would put the reactor water back into the tank. Is that tee a check valve or something?

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Thanks for the replies so far guys, I think I'm starting to understand how one of these things work. I snagged a picture from the Geo website that shows a pretty good diagram on how it is setup.

-Does the peristaltic pump replace the output reactor valve in this diagram?

YES

I'm guessing the P pump would provide a more reliable method to deliver the calcium rich water to the tank, but does the pressure provided from the Eheim really vary that much? THE EHEIM ISN'T THE ONLY CHANGE, THE RETURN VALVE CAN VARRY WITH TEMP ETC TOO. tHE RETURN PUMP HELPS TO GET AND KEEP IT DIALED IN

Are these little valves easy to adjust if I didn't use a P pump?

YES, BUT MIGHT FIND YOURSELF HAVING TO PLAY WITH IT DAILY/WEEKLY

-How much water is added to the tank from the reactor? I understand that would vary depending on my calcium usage but I'm wondering how that would affect my top off.

measured in ml / hour or drips, in other words, only a few liters per day depending on your tanks needs
-Does the output from the calcium reactor lower the tank PH? I understand the reactor is supposed to be around 6.5 but I don't know what it would be by the time it reached the tank.

Not measurably, nor even near what night time does. the DKH levels are much more important.

-I'm also curious about the feed pump. Is an aqualifter a better option? A MJ seems like it would provide much more water to the reactor than would be simultaneously leaving so I don't see how that would work. It seems the pressure from the recirc pump would be greater than from the MJ/aqualifter and would put the reactor water back into the tank. Is that tee a check valve or something?

If using a dosing pump, no need for the feed pump. Most reacters don't need a feed pump anyway. The input from the tank is connected to the low pressure side of the circulation system and thus will pull from the tank. If using one, better to have on vacume side per DonW.

 

[bc_slc]

As stated above. The peristaltic pump eliminates the output valve and the input pump. The amount of water added by the pump does not matter, as the reactor is a closed circuit (it takes the same amount of water out of the tank, and then puts it back into the tank). This is unlike a Kalk reactor where it adds water into the system (i.e. to replace evap).

The peristaltic pump is nice because it keeps the flow through the reactor relatively constant. If you setup as in the diagram with a pump to feed and an output valve, the valve slowly changes over a couple of days (calcium buildup, etc), so you have to adjust it often. With a p-pump, that is not the case.

Alternatively, you could purchase a controller (as you mentioned in your first post) and it would turn on/off the reactor based upon levels of either pH or calcium (depending on the controller).

As you said, the pump by the side of the reactor is for internal circuilation.

Mat

 

[class clown]

following along Rick - dont' have anything additional to contribute over what's already be said. I run a combo of Kalk reactor and calcium reactor for the reasons already mentioned about PH.

I do have a question for the other folks on here though talking about the peristalic pump - can you recomend some good brands? I have a GEO and I'm still tweaking mine after several months and wondering if this P-Pump is the way to go. thx!

Ben

 

[Blazer88]

I came across an interesting thread on RC that is debating a calcium reactor vs. a two-part system. I'm only on page 5 of 13 so I still have some reading to go but an automated two-part system via dosing pumps may be an easier option since my tank is fairly small. I really need to figure out what my Calc/Alk consumption is for my tank and see which would be a better option. Does anyone on here use a two-part solution (DIY or otherwise) w/dosing pumps?

 

[bc_slc]

Before I had one, I could see how that is tempting. However, now that I have the calc reactor, it is seriously so damn easy. You have to fine tune the bubble count of CO2, and the flow through the reactor....but otherwise, it is truly set it and forget it until you need more Co2 or more media. It seriously requires maintenance every 1-3 months.

 

[DonW]

I came across an interesting thread on RC that is debating a calcium reactor vs. a two-part system. I'm only on page 5 of 13 so I still have some reading to go but an automated two-part system via dosing pumps may be an easier option since my tank is fairly small. I really need to figure out what my Calc/Alk consumption is for my tank and see which would be a better option. Does anyone on here use a two-part solution (DIY or otherwise) w/dosing pumps?

With the price of diy two part now days and the size of your tank either way would equate to close to the same cost and work.
Two part is safer and has almost no learning curve for a semi experienced reef keeper. Perfectly automating to part to get the same efficiency as a ca reactor takes a decent dosing set up. Either a LM3 or pumps with 1 second timers. Personally I think the LM3 is way over priced for what you get.
Ca reactors can be a PITA but some times you get luck and come up with the right combo and its easy.
Peri pumps pulling a negetive pressure on the ca reactor definatly make life easier.

Don

 

[Blazer88]

I was hoping you would chime in here Don. I have also read that calc reactors will work better with a peristaltic pump as well. I figure if I need to buy a P pump, I might as well just get two of them and use two-part in gallon jugs. What do you think of these pumps? I would just DIY both of them into a Radio Shack project box and splice in the power supply.
http://www.twopartsolution.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=94&products_id=237

They offer a low-flow tubing option that will lower the flow to about 2.4ml per minute. Based on their estimates of the two-part daily usage, I would probably need .5ml per gallon of talk water (about 35ml per day). At the low-flow rate of those pumps, they would need to be on for 14 minutes per day. I would just need to get two digital timers and space the dosing throughout the night. It seems that I should be able to fine-tune the pump for my needs even at one minute intervals. What do you think about that?

 

[DonW]

Agreed with that low of flow you should have no problem. Those are Welco pumps, they can handle being cut back to 9vdc for even slower more precise flow. One thing to keep in mind with a dc pump is the cheap wall wart adapters are not regulated. Test the output of the pump dont just assume its 2.5 ml/min.

If you have a aqualifter handy, try that first befor spending the $70 ea.

Don

 

[Blazer88]

I did a google search for Welco and can't find them anywhere other than Tokoyo. What about these peristaltic pumps?
http://www.iprocessmart.com/instruments_1.htm
EDIT: Apparently the link doesn't take you directly to the product; scroll down to pumps, and then click on SP100 to see which one I'm referring to.

Model #SP100.104 is for 120V with a fixed flow of 2ml and even comes with an ABS box w/switch for $60. That's $20 cheaper than the bare-bones Welco, lower flow, and doesn't require a 12V power supply.

All I would need is two timers (which I still can't find any that I like yet) and I would be set. It would be great to get something like this if it wasn't 240V
http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Sockets-Digit...goryZ301QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[DonW]

They do work but the welco is better. There are only two places I know of to get welco's me and TPS. Ive been waiting 3 months for a order of them so I'd just go to tps.
Digital timers at lowes or hd will give you 1 minute resolution. I wouldnt worry about the dc voltage issue. Even the LM3 has to be calibrated to head and voltage.
What sort of timer are you wanting?

Don

 

[Blazer88]

I was hoping to find a digital timer that had two programmable outputs rather than buying two completely separate timers/outlets. I haven't checked out Lowes/HD yet as I'm still mulling things over.

About the pump, I thought it would be easier to just go timer to pump versus have a 12v adapter in the middle. The Welco w/low-flow kit runs about $95 each. Going with those other pumps would be $70 cheaper and I wouldn't need 2-12V adapters.

Here is something else that I noticed. Here is a picture from twopartsolution.com for "Drew's Eco Doser" (though I don't know what the serial port is for)

Here is a photo of the SP100 Micro that I'm interested in:

See a similarity? Oddly enough, the TPS version comes with an ABS box and switch for $60 versus the $90 TPS wants. I wonder if the one they are selling on their site is the 120VAC or DC version. Makes me think it's worth it to order up the SP100 and have a go with those.

 

[DonW]

I was hoping to find a digital timer that had two programmable outputs rather than buying two completely separate timers/outlets. I haven't checked out Lowes/HD yet as I'm still mulling things over.

About the pump, I thought it would be easier to just go timer to pump versus have a 12v adapter in the middle. The Welco w/low-flow kit runs about $95 each. Going with those other pumps would be $70 cheaper and I wouldn't need 2-12V adapters.

Here is something else that I noticed. Here is a picture from twopartsolution.com for "Drew's Eco Doser" (though I don't know what the serial port is for)

Here is a photo of the SP100 Micro that I'm interested in:

See a similarity? Oddly enough, the TPS version comes with an ABS box and switch for $60 versus the $90 TPS wants. I wonder if the one they are selling on their site is the 120VAC or DC version. Makes me think it's worth it to order up the SP100 and have a go with those.

Either of them is fine, they both work fine. The biggest difference between the ac and dc is the life span. Since its just two part additions the life span is not that big of deal. I would not pay $20 or $30 for a plastic box. You can mount them yourself and save a few buck each.
You can go with peri's and use cheap digital timers or go with aqualifters and use expensive solid state timers. Either way you end up with the same thing. Or you can go with peris and mount a solid state timers in the same box and have the best of both worlds with just one power cord.

Don

 

[Blazer88]

Do you think there is any issue with using a single timer to control the pumps simultaneously? I thought I read somewhere it's better to dose the two-part solutions separately since they will precipitate. Something like Part A at midnight, Part B at 2am, etc. Maybe it would work if the output tubes were into different parts of the sump so they wouldn't directly react with each other. It would really simplify things if I could just use a single timer.

 

[DonW]

Do you think there is any issue with using a single timer to control the pumps simultaneously? I thought I read somewhere it's better to dose the two-part solutions separately since they will precipitate. Something like Part A at midnight, Part B at 2am, etc. Maybe it would work if the output tubes were into different parts of the sump so they wouldn't directly react with each other. It would really simplify things if I could just use a single timer.

That I would not do. Its sort of a bummer trying diy these. It seems like by the time you cure the issues with diy you dont save much.

I would build all in one package to emulate the LM3 as close as possible. Not really I'm to cheap I would use aqua lifters and a good timing solution not plug in timers.

Don