Help... what's wrong with my fish?

[surf_buddy]

Hello all... I went and looked in on my fish this morning and my yellow tail damsel looks like his blue scales are almost all missing on one side of it's body, and it's all white where his scales once were. Does anyone know what this is? I'm worried it my spread to my other fish. Included are pics from my iphone. Thanks!

 

[jezzeaepi]

Hmm well usually damsels are the ones that pick on others, not the ones who get attacked, but thats what it looks like. Might have gotten chased and ran into some rocks? If its a one time injury, just keep him well fed and he should start looking better in like 2 days. If he starts looking worse, Id be more concerned and think about isolating him untill you can figure out if its agression, an ailement, or some possible water chemistry problem thats causing a lot of stress.

If you seperate him and he gets better, probably agression.
If you seperate him and he dies, but the rest of the tank goes on fine, probably an infection that he got somehow.
If you seperate him and the fish in your display decline with his absence, then you have someonething bad in your water, either living or chemical.

 

[Myteemouse]

first get the fish out till you know what it is!!!! NOW!!!
Even a plasctic bag is good untill something better comes along!

 

[surf_buddy]

Ok then I think it may be chemical... I've been working on bumping up my ph with addition of kalkwasser in my h20 top off. However my skimmer went crazy and wet skimmed out a few gallons two nights ago and the ph spiked from 8.05 to 8.6. I'm doing a H20 change to day, so hopefully this should help. However, I also just added a new RBTA and maybe he got too close?

 

[surf_buddy]

first get the fish out till you know what it is!!!! NOW!!!
Even a plasctic bag is good untill something better comes along!

Hmmm... I'll see what I got. I knew I should have bought that QT I saw at the goodwill the other day.

 

[returnofsid]

You can use a 5 gallon bucket with a power head and small heater as a QT if needed. I'd suggest having a Mod move this to Lee's fish forum for better advice.

 

[jezzeaepi]

If its just a scrape, catching him and moving him to a new enviroment is going to put a bunch of stress on the poor guy. If its just an injury, the fish will do much better not being moved around imho.

You probably shouldn't even listen to me though, because I never QT my fish =P My philosophy has always been to buy healthy, and feed well. I have had a few minor incidents but they have always been isolated, and in every case the fish did awesome with good feeding and proper water maintenance. Ive had popeye, some sort of minor fin innfection that resulted from injury, and the dreaded ick. With the proper care and nutrition they always seem to pull through just fine. In my 3.5 years of keeping reef fish I have never lost any fish other then jumpers.

 

[surf_buddy]

Well I'd have to tear down all my rock work to get to him, or wait it out with a fish trap... so my plan of action now is to do a H20 change and test my chemistry again. I also have a phosban reactor I'll be setting up tonight bc I know nitrates have been a little high. I also noticed his tail to be a little damaged too so maybe something is picking on it.

I have a GSM clown fish (the likely aggressor), a blue tang, a mandrian dragonette, a yellow fin blenny, a chromis, and a coral banded shrimp. They have all lived together for a least 2 years now, so nothing new was introduced into the tank.

I did go out and buy a small heater (I already have a pump and backpack skimmer) if I do need to eventually move him to the QT bucket provided I can catch him. I'll also be on the look out for a small QT tank since I think it's time to get one just in case. Thanks for all the help everyone!

 

[surf_buddy]

I'd suggest having a Mod move this to Lee's fish forum for better advice.

Dumb question I'm sure... but how do I find the mod?

 

[Scooterman]

Dumb question I'm sure... but how do I find the mod?

There is a little Red flag way under your avatar, that is the report button to the mods. used for when you see troubles or need help, also the Mods Name is in bold so you can just send a PM direct. I move the thread earlier for you but didn't say anything! Hopefully Lee will get to you by the morning!

 

[surf_buddy]

There is a little Red flag way under your avatar, that is the report button to the mods. used for when you see troubles or need help, also the Mods Name is in bold so you can just send a PM direct. I move the thread earlier for you but didn't say anything! Hopefully Lee will get to you by the morning!

Thanks for help Scooterman!

 

[leebca]

Under the circumstances of water quality issues, I would leave the fish where it is for the time being and move to stabilize the water.

This fish is pretty fast, but 'curious' enough to get into trouble with many Anemones. Still, it should know better than to get too close to one on purpose. Still, there are accidents and 'panic moments' in the life of captive fishes.

The pH is extraordinary and the shift is large enough to kill more delicate marine life forms (including some fishes). The results on a fish would be as you see on this fish -- the paling of the skin area after the mucous membrane has deteriorated from the water quality shift. This can lead to further problems, like infection or attack by opportunistic organisms like fungi. If the fish worsens or doesn't seem to improve in a few days, or if at anytime you see reddening, remove to a separate quarantine tank and treat with an antibiotic that is recommended for 'surface' (topical) infections. However this condition can turn into a systemic problem.

I am still concerned about you making pH adjustments and would suggest you provide us with the following current information:

Alk
Calcium
Magnesium
pH
temp
salinity/sp. gr.

Good luck!

 

[surf_buddy]

Thanks lee... I'll post my readings as soon as I get home from work.

 

[surf_buddy]

Ok here are my current parameters taken with elos test kits, and my salinity is taken with a refractometer. Chemically things look better but I wish I could get my nitrates down. I did a 25% water change last night and started running a phosban reactor with GFO and carbon. I do a 25% water change every two weeks with RO/DI from my unit. The TDS reads 0 on the output, but my filters are looking pretty bad...I'm wondering if the nitrates could be from the current state of the RO/DI filters? Looking at the photos what's the consensus?

Also, my damsel still looks the same and none of my other fishes seen to be effected.

Nitrate: 2.5-5 (high)
Ph: 8.11
Ca: 400
Mg: 1350
Alk: 12
Sg: 1.024
temp: 76.5

 

[leebca]

The three chemical analyzes of Alk, Calcium, and Magnesium is what buffers the water and maintains the pH. If you attempt to alter the pH from what those chemistries try to buffer it, you will meet the resistance of the buffer and potentially throw the system out of balance.

If you check: What is Water Quality you'll find a table showing the balance of these three at different levels of each component.

The meaning of the above (ramblings) and the table is that your chemistries are not in balance. The pH is struggling in a zone where it isn't steady nor buffered properly to hold there. I would suggest you strive to put those three into balance, following the directions given in the above link (very slow AND small changes, and waiting 48 hours to check the effect of the change).

Putting these into balance will hold the pH very steady (as they are meant to). If these are in proper balance, and there being no other problems with the aquarium water, the pH will find its own level and hold there, very steady and reliably. Then, the chemical maintenance is to maintain that balance.

Once in true balance, a chemical pH adjuster should no longer be needed (nor would it be desirable).

The first step is deciding what numbers you really desire. Unless you have some very unusual marine lifeforms (and I haven't seen anything of that type so far), you want to set the numbers about in the middle of that table.

By maintaining a high alkalinity (that you now have), the system is pushing the pH down -- and this is not what you want. Thus a lower alkalinity is desirable to encourage a higher pH. Putting the other concentrations to correspond with that lower alkalinity then makes the pH stable.

Avoid adding unusual or different chemicals to the water. That is, stick with the basics as much as possible.

The Damsel may just need time to recover. Watch it closely (as I'm sure you are). If no improvement is seen by the 5th days since you first saw this, then move the fish into quarantine and, as previously mentioned, treat with a topical antibiotic. You may want to take this time to prepare to do this.

Also, I would recommend using an aide to help the fish recover its mucous coating. A product such as: Pro Tech Coat Marine or StressGuard may be used as a temporary mucus layer, or to help the fish repair its mucous layer. This should be used in the quarantine tank.

Good luck!

 

[surf_buddy]

Wow... what a wealth of information here. 3 years in the hobby and still learning new stuff everyday. I feel like I should be paying you!

Ok I think I need to give you more information on my reef. I have a mixed reef focusing on SPS and LPS corals. I have a moderately well stocked reef, with a refrigum on a reverse light cycle. I have chaeto chamber and a benzic zone set up in the refrugum too. I keep my CA reactor effluent running between 6.5 and 6.7. Also my reef is in the basement and I believe the poor air quality is a factor in the low PH. I am still thinking of the best way to run an airline to an outside air source.

My question is... is the table provided best suited for FOWLR only systems and or can it be beneficial to my mixed reef system? Also, would it make more sense for me to raise the CA (from 400 to 445) to reach a balance between CA, Mag, and Alk rather than lowering the dKh? Again thanks for you time and detailed answers in addressing my issue

 

[leebca]

I didn't wish to tread on others' toes, so I labeled the table for FO and FOWLR since that is my expertise. However that table is used by those who want to run a stabilized reef tank.

It doesn't make sense to raise the calcium because, as I wrote, the high alkalinity pushes the pH down and you say you don't want that. What you do to compensate for this, is to run the system lower but make more frequent additions (continuous drip or daily) to the chemistries.

There is nothing wrong with a reef tank operating in the mid-range of that table UNLESS as I also mentioned you have some unusual marine life forms. Since now you say you have it well stocked and SPS are involved, then I would operate at a calcium of about 432 and the corresponding others. If the pH still proves too low to your liking you can always choose a number in mid-table. But keep them balanced.

The more stable the chemistries are, the better for your marine life. As you know your marine life is pulling these chemistries from the water. After you get the 'feel' for their uptake, you can actually maintain the balance by only checking the water as infrequently as once every week to 10 days. That's when you figure out the usual additions to make daily.

Lack of air circulation is a concern, no doubt. I've run flex tubing to a hole I've made in windows or through a notch I made in the window frame to pull air through and get an electrical cord through. A diaphragm pump outside (weather sacrificed or weather protected) does fairly well. The bigger the pump, the more air of course.

And lastly, you're welcome. I'm here to help -- for free.

 

[surf_buddy]

Update!

Lee,

Looks like I got everything under control now. My damsel is healing nicely. He's still aggressive as ever exhibiting his usual behavior, and my ph has stabilized too. Also, no other fish came down with any signs of stress. Looking back, although I had a nasty Ph swing, I think the damsel may have come in contact with the new anemone and almost became lunch. Either way your advice taught me a lot during this time of crisis, and for that I thank you!

Mitch