help with dieing green zoanthids and torch coral

[cmiller]

i was wondering if someone might have some advice for me re: my colony of green zoanthids that is dieing. i also had a red colored zoanthids colony that died off a few weeks ago. my torch coral was growing really nicely up until a few months ago and since then growth has stopped and it looks to be slowly dieing. my levels seem to be all good (ca: 450 ppm; alk 10 dKH; sp grav 1.025; ph: 8.2; amonia : <.1) i replaced my actinic 5 weeks ago and my metal halide with 175 Watt 14000K Aquamaxx Metal Halide Bulb instead of my usual 175 w, 140000 ushio. (is it possible that this bulb is bunk?) io do a 20% water change about every 5 or 6 weeks.
any thoughts?

thanks for your help.
chris

 

[Chichas01]

You are detecting ammonia? Ammonia should always be zero. If it isn't, your tank is cycling. How about Nitrites? Nitrates? What kind of test kits are you using? Other live stock? How large is the tank? What are you feeding?

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Along with chichas' questions... how long had/have the corals been in the tank and what other corals are in there with them?

 

[cmiller]

Along with chichas' questions... how long had/have the corals been in the tank and what other corals are in there with them?

Ammonia is actually btw. .1 and zero. i use elos test kits for everything except my alk which is aamottte kit. the elos amonia test kit is use is a little difficult to get a compltetely accurate reading. i just tested my nitrite levels which are .02 (I've run out of nitrates test kit for now). which surprises me. does this mean a water change is needed?

the 46 gallon tank is about 6 years established and it's been very healthy up until recently. both corals in question have been in the tank for over 1 yr. other live stock incl an oscilarus clown, 6 line wrasse, red spotted goby, snowflake eel, cleaner shrimp, 1/2 dozen snails and crabs, yellow tipped anenome, condalactis anenome, giant clam, 2 leather corals, open brain coral, brain coral, plate coral, colt corals, a colony of brown zoanthids, candy cane coral. i feed mysis shrimp by lifeline and 2 or 3 drops of phytomax 4 or 5 times a week.

thanks for your help.

 

[Chichas01]

Yeah, the only thing you should be dectecting is nitrates. If you are detecting ammmonia and nitirites, something has died or is rotting in your tank and has set off a cycle. If it were me, I'd do some big daily water changes until things look better. I'd also cut out the phyto. I don't think it's really necessary unless you have a large amount of non-photosynthetic corals or inverts. I also see you are running a seaclone skimmer. Can you upgrade? Lots of more efficient skimmers available for a fair price in the used equipment forum. If you act quick, Luke has a sweet Bubble Magus cone skimmer for sale for $175 that I saw this morning.
That eel is a HUGE fish for a 46 gallon tank...or at least will be someday. I've heard they are pretty messy eaters. What do you feed him? Maybe it's an overfeeding problem?

 

[estanoche]

What time of the day are you checking your PH? Do you feel it is stable above 8.0 all day and night?

I've got an unconfirmed suspicion that zoanthid melting is related to unbalanced PH & ALK.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Hmmm... other than the ammonia issue, nothing really jumps out. 20% water changes every 5-6 seems like a loooong time between changes, but if it's been working for you in the past, then I wouldn't think that's the problem. Might want to get a nitrate test kit and check those... thinking those might be high if that eel is well fed.

I was thinking maybe you just added a new coral... maybe a leather or something... and things were melting due to that.

 

[cmiller]

Yeah, the only thing you should be dectecting is nitrates. If you are detecting ammmonia and nitirites, something has died or is rotting in your tank and has set off a cycle. If it were me, I'd do some big daily water changes until things look better. I'd also cut out the phyto. I don't think it's really necessary unless you have a large amount of non-photosynthetic corals or inverts. I also see you are running a seaclone skimmer. Can you upgrade? Lots of more efficient skimmers available for a fair price in the used equipment forum. If you act quick, Luke has a sweet Bubble Magus cone skimmer for sale for $175 that I saw this morning.
That eel is a HUGE fish for a 46 gallon tank...or at least will be someday. I've heard they are pretty messy eaters. What do you feed him? Maybe it's an overfeeding problem?

all very good advice. thank you. i'll do a h2o change tomorrow. i don't know that anything has died recently. i'll also look into upgrading the skimmer. my problem is space in the sump which is whey i haven't upgraded to a better skimmer. i;ll take a look at teh bubble magus footprint.
the eel is about 6 inches and a little wider than a pencil right now. i feed him frozen shrimp. and the downturn in the zoanthids and the torch started happening before i added him about 2 weeks ago so don't know that he's the issue. it 's strange b/c some corals like the open brain, the leathers, and the candy are doing well.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

I'm no leather expert, but I know they can be pretty nasty if they want to be - chemically speaking. I didn't notice the leathers in your coral list the first time, but they caught my eye in this last listing. Are the corals that are dieing off "downstream" of the leathers, or nearby? (Yeah... I have a 46g also, so I know just about everything is "nearby!")

 

[cmiller]

What time of the day are you checking your PH? Do you feel it is stable above 8.0 all day and night?

I've got an unconfirmed suspicion that zoanthid melting is related to unbalanced PH & ALK.

i can't say for certain, but i think most of the time i check ph it's in the evening. i can check again tomorrow am and see if there is any notable difference in levels.

 

[cmiller]

I'm no leather expert, but I know they can be pretty nasty if they want to be - chemically speaking. I didn't notice the leathers in your coral list the first time, but they caught my eye in this last listing. Are the corals that are dieing off "downstream" of the leathers, or nearby? (Yeah... I have a 46g also, so I know just about everything is "nearby!")

right, with a 46 gal 'space' is a relative term. read: time for a bigger tank! the leathers are both about 6" to 10" from the zoanthids, but both leathers and zoanthids have been in those positions for months (years?) and thrived for a long time until just recently. i'm going to try a water change tomorrow. this seems to be an issue that reefers are equally split on: to do water changes or not and if so, how often and how much. i think i've heard an equal number of hobbyists say one doesn't need to do water changes as those that say you must. i always have, but i wonder....

 

[OCDreefer]

Best chance to save anything: I would carbon and water changes, like 10% for the next three days. (or do a Massive water change... like 50%) Water changes are never a bad thing... if done right.

 

[Holygral]

Your eel is not reef friendly. Your shrimp, snails and some fish will be disappearing as he grows. You may already have some which is starting a re-cycle.

 

[diverphil71]

Have you checked your water temp?

 

[cmiller]

Your eel is not reef friendly. Your shrimp, snails and some fish will be disappearing as he grows. You may already have some which is starting a re-cycle.

i removed the eel so i won't be feeding frozen shrimp to him anymore and hopefully this will control the amonia issue. i also did a 15 gallon h2o change but still detecting traces of amonia and nitrites. i' use bio balls filtration in the overflow and i'm wondering if the oxygen/water set-up is creating amonia.

 

[cmiller]

Have you checked your water temp?

temp is fine. ranges from 77 - 79 degrees

 

[reefreefer]

Maybe you got a hitch hiker, did you get anything new? Take a good look, them critters can be small and elusive.

 

[Damsel13]

I have had the same problem over a 1 year period. I can't be sure but did find this shell in the tank at about the same time I added a new rock. I had several healthy colonys of zoos and lots of mushrooms. They have slowly disappeared. I tend to think that it is a lack of tank husbandry on my part. Too little too late (high nitrates over a long period of time). I have stepped up the water changes and been changing the carbon more often in hopes of saving my one striped mushroom. Good luck on arresting your loss.

 

[cmiller]

I have had the same problem over a 1 year period. I can't be sure but did find this shell in the tank at about the same time I added a new rock. I had several healthy colonys of zoos and lots of mushrooms. They have slowly disappeared. I tend to think that it is a lack of tank husbandry on my part. Too little too late (high nitrates over a long period of time). I have stepped up the water changes and been changing the carbon more often in hopes of saving my one striped mushroom. Good luck on arresting your loss.

that's interesting. i haven't added any live rock, but i have noticed several species that look like tiny star fish (about 1/2 inch in length with several tentacles). i'm sorry i don't have a pic of them, but i wonder if anyone is aware of what these might be and if they're harmful to corals and clams? my mushrooms have also not been looking so good lately, even though other corals seem to be doing quite well. i'll keep up with the water changes and try to stablize the nitrite and amonia levels.

 

[mal1099]

i have a smaller tank like you also and i had to take my mixed reef and turn it into a strictly sps. I was having a warfare problem and the softies where winning. I removed them and the sps are starting to look better.