Hi! New to Saltwater - First Tank Build. Need Advice.

[Dawg2012]

Hi. I'm new to the site and new to salt water. I've read a couple of library articles and a few posts and I have to say I'm excited! This seems like a great place!

First let me say I've read a couple of places here at RF to not be shy and ask lots of questions - so be forewarned - I think too much lol.

I'm looking to setup my first salt water tank. I'm a complete noob with SW, though I have over a dozen African Cichlid tanks ranging from 20g to 180g. I really want to take what I've learned to the next level.

Here's what I'm thinking. I want to start with Live Rock, than at some point - when it's time - very basic fish/inverts. I'm definitely NOT looking for fancy fish at this point. I definitely want the option of corals, maybe even at the expense of fish - but that's way down the line. Right now I just want to get a tank setup and stable with some live rock, and learn the ropes. Patience is easy these days with so many other tanks lol.

I could word this a million different ways, so let me just spit it out lol. I have a 4' 55g I can dedicate to SW. If it's of significant value, I could swap it out for a 4' 75, or even a 90 if the extra height is of value.

While the idea of a sump is rather simple, the mechanics of doing it are rather intimidating to me right now. I think I'd like to do this in the future but not right now. I could be pursuaded though... ugh... there are so many advantages.

I have an FX5, and I could easily stock it with cycled media from my other tanks - if cycled freshwater media would work? I can supplement filtration with a couple of cycled Aqueon 55/75's. Maybe the FX5 and a sump!?

I guess I need a skimmer? I need to read up on what this is. Can anyone suggest a decent one for the size tank I'm doing?

I'm open for substrate. What's Live Sand? Is it like Live Rock? Does it raise pH? What's the best substrate if Live Sand isn't so ideal?

So once I have the tank and filters in place, what do I do? Can I mix the water and salt the first time around in the tank?

I'll probably look at an RO/DI unit as 75g is a lot of water... What are other options for the first fill?

What are options for water changes, and what is the baseline percentage and frequency? 20% weekly is still three five gallon buckets. Is there a RO/DI unit that would work nicely here?

If I use Live Sand, do I already have to have the water/temp/filters setup before adding it? I'm soooo new at this.

Basically I just want to get the ball rolling while I continue to learn and read that good book that I see recommended everywhere.

Thanks for any advice - even if it's... "Dawg - you need to go read some more before doing anything..."

 

[kpiotrowski]

You are me...a year ago, so my advice is get rid of a few tanks and devote your time and money to one larger salt tank ( think 180) with the right equiptment. you will need a sump. no canister filters. don't waste money on live rock or sand, buy dry rock and aragonite substrate. first fill can be done in tank and imo can be done with tap water...but only first time. and as far as water changes my freshwater freind...get ready for this...set up your system right and don't overstock and you can practically say goodbye to water changes! welome to RF and good luck!

 

[Dawg2012]

It's funny you say that... my 180 is level and on it's stand in the basement... but has yet to have anything put in it... even water or substrate.

I don't think I want to do that now though... I'm going to be moving within the next year and if that were all setup for SW it would be... more of a chore than it's already going to be lol.

Hopefully I can learn the ropes on a smaller tank then when we get our house we can do a larger tank justice

That's good news about water changes though!

 

[Mike2112]

Welcome to RF!I by no means am an expert. I am still very new to SW, but this is what I have learned so far:If your going to do a smaller tank than the 180, make the 50g tank the smallest size you want to go on the first tank you do. Size does matter due to stability of the system and the water parameters. Smaller than 50g requires ALOT attention on your part to maintaining the correct parameters while larger tanks are more forgiving. If you can do the sump...Do it. It adds a whole bunch of benifits toward stablizing the parameters.A few sources of information would be books to get. When I started on this site I had ZERO experience with SW and alot from Tropical Freshwater. I got a recommendation to get and read this book by NC2WA The Conscientious Marine Aquarist: A Commonsense Handbook for Successful Saltwater Hobbyists (Microcosm/T.F.H. Professional): Robert M. Fenner,Matthew L. Wittenrich,Scott W. Michael,Alf Jacob Nilsen,Christopher Turk: 9781890087999: Amazon.com: Books A very good book. Another that I got was The New Marine Aquarium: Step-By-Step Setup & Stocking Guide: Michael S. Paletta: 0097818900875: Amazon.com: Books as well as The Complete Idiot's Guide to Saltwater Aquariums: Mark W. Martin,Ret Talbot,Karen Talbot: 9781592578269: Amazon.com: Books All of these books cover the topic of starting a new aquarium in great detail and provide good advice on aquascaping and stocking the tank.I have also learned that the people here on RF are a great bunch of people willing to share thier knowledge.

 

[Mike2112]

Sorry about the above post with no line breaks. Not sure what happened. HELP!

 

[Dawg2012]

Hey, thanks for the info! I was already looking for the first book you mentioned, and now will look for all of them - they sound perfect!

I hear you on water volume as it relates to stability, and I think I've talked myself into a 75.

I will look into a sump as well. Does the HOB type work okay, or since I have to get a new tank (darn!), should I get one that is drilled?

 

[Mike2112]

If you can get the tank drilled, do it. It is alot easier to work with. Unfortunately, my tank was not drilled so I am using an overflow box since I do not have the nerves of steel to drill 1/2 inch thick glass.

 

[Krish]

A 75gal is a great tank! I love the dimensions!! My 75 gal I had was one of my favorite tanks!!

As already suggested, I wouldn't mess with any canister filters. If not taken care of properly could add to your problems down the road more than help with waste accumilation that will lead to water quality issues and dreaded algae issues. Your liverock will do all of the biological filtration your tank should need so apart from using a canister to maybe run some media in it like carbon, I wouldn't use it for anything else (using bio media etc).

Hope you enjoy the site and welcome to the forum! :welcome:

 

[Dawg2012]

Thanks for the welcome guys!

Krish - you mentioned you wouldn't use a canister for anything else (using bio media). What about mechanical filtration and current? I have the FX5 with a custom spray bar on several of my FW tanks and thought the current it produced would be ideal for SW. Would the FX5 be beneficial in those regards, assuming stocked with mechanical media, or should I just get the canister idea out of my head lol?

 

[pandora32]

I started my sw hobby with a 20g hexagon tank. I spent a bunch of money on liverock and livesand, which isnt alive at all by the way. That tank failed miserably in very short time. Went to a 55g and had good success with that tank. Than the wife and me got a 215g drilled tank and have been happy ever since, even though i want a bigger one now...lol. Go as big as you can on your tank size as well as your skimmer size. I learned the hard (expensive) way not to skimp on your skimmer. Next to the big glass container holding all your water and livestock in, a skimmer, to me, is the next most important piece for a succesful reef. Then lighting. Leds seem to be VERY popular. I dont use them personnaly, but thats only because im so dang confused about what to get! Ive asked questions, done ALOT of reading, but the more i ask and read, the more i get confused! As for a skimmer selection, i went a different route than anybody else here. Im pretty sure nobody here is using a skimz protien skimmer. Check into them. Ive been using mine since january and it pulls the crap out real good. Save some money now and do as suggested, get clean dry rock, more pourous the better, get yourself some dry aragonite sand (crushed coral). I dont know if tapwater would be ok to start with or not, but i would just start with ro/di water since your starting with clean rock and sand and equipment. Why risk the contamination? Starting with clean dry rock andsand sand is a benefit because you'll be startng without the risk of pests being introduced into the system. Aptasia and majono anemones come to mind...ugh! Oh! Almost forgot! WELCOME TO REEF FRONTIERS! Best people and the best info available is at your disposal now! Congrats. And as Ipises says, shes admin...lol, pics or it didnt happen.

 

[IPisces]

Welcome agian. It is exciting, isn't it! You will have a lot of fun learning about all the life you wouldnt believe is actually in a saltwater tank. It was fun finding all the critters that make the system live.

I have a 75, drilled corner overflow. It is a great size tank. I know you would be much happier with i,t than with a 55.

On that size of a tank, you should definately go with a sump. They are not that hard to build. Dont know if you have seen this site or not. This is where I learned how to put one together. Melevsreef.com | Acrylic Sumps & Refugiums

Looking forward to following along with your build.

 

[IPisces]

by pandora32
And as Ipises says, shes admin...lol, pics or it didnt happen.

Did I say that! haha!
It will be a little while before you can post pics, but when you can....yeah we will be expecting them!

 

[Peppie]

Sump, sump, sump, sump, sump, sump, sump, sump ,sump, sump, sump, sump, sump,

 

[pandora32]

Yup! I remember you saying that in like my 3rdother post...lol

 

[pandora32]

Oh...and go with a sump. Nice thing, you can move your sump to your next tank. Also hide your heater and whatever other "gadgets" you might not want in your display.

 

[Dawg2012]

Wow! This is a lively and very helpful place! Thanks for all the input - it's REALLY appreciated.

One question that comes to mind (among thousands lurking in the subconscious) - it sounds like Live Rock isn't recommended. If I start with Dry Rock, how do I seed it (with critters and 'good' algae and/or anything else) when that time comes? I had a SW tank a couple decades ago and had a few pieces of Live Rock and just loved watching and discovering new critters (over the few weeks that the tank was functional...).

And for cycling purposes, how do I start that without the decomposing (curing) Live Rock? Ammonia? Mollies?

I'm going to go look for the recommended books tomorrow, and will order them if I can't find them.

Oh! As far as a sump... is DIY recommended or are the off the shelf versions... better. Looks like Aqueon makes one... just don't know how it would compare to a DIY... and what's the best type... Wet/Dry, Refug, or... Berlin?

Yes I'm going to go read as soon as I can get a book lol

 

[kpiotrowski]

had the fx5 on a African cichlid tank myself. in salt water the skimmer is your mechanical flitration. You don't want any sponge type material trapping detrius and it breaking down that junk and turning into nitrates and also don't want to filter out planktonic life too.you can seed your tank with coraline from anyones tank, handfulls of sand also. you will be surprized what will come in on the backs of your livestock too.cycling your tank is much a preference. I used fritzyme and threw in a few fish and was amazed of its affectiveness. I'd swear by it and there are other instant seeding bacteria in a bottle stuff out there also. have a tank cycled is one thing...and stable is another though! that could be many months as you will learn from your readings.as far as sumps that will come with your reading and prefence also except NO wet/dry, they are nitrate factories! the two main nutrient export methods are macro algea fuge/sump and biopellet reactor. and various other absorbing media that I personally feel are a waste of money, but others will swear by. for me the trick is to not get yourself in a situation where there are excess nutrients in the first place.

 

[NC2WA]

Dawg,Welcome to RF !!Alot of people on this site who are willing to help and offer good advice.if interested, I am having a Contest for newbies...good chance to learn some things and well as potentially winning some prizes...see http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/f124/contest-newbies-take-two-65378/while thread, the site is still undergoing some last minute changes, i have extended the deadline, so I am still accepting entries.Kirk

 

[Dawg2012]

So... no canister. Understood. Thanks for explaining the logic.

And NC2WA yes! I'd like the opportunity to learn some things. I saw the contest yesterday as I was poking around but seemed it had ended the night before so... I'll go check out the link and get it setup.

 

[IPisces]

I started my 180 with dry rock. I initially started the cycle in a very large rubbermaid container with a raw shrimp from the grocery store. I also had a skimmer in the container. It takes a while for the cycle. I am not sure how long it actually took to cycle it. I had time, so I just let it go. I started it in I believe january or february this year and finally got it into the tank in may. Added a few fish shortly after. Unfortunately I had to remove them all to QT. One of them came down with ick. Maybe it was too many too soon and the system couldnt keep up with the added bioload. Just started adding fish back to it last week. Slowly.

I have used a bacteria in a bottle before and it seemed to work just fine.

Invest in good test kits. They are a must to test for the cycle period and to keep the water parameters in a good range.
I am using the Salifert brand for Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, Calcium, Alkalinity and Magnesium. I am using a Hanna hand held ph meter.