How Much Sand?

[Quigley]

Thanks everyone for your continued help!

Questions:
- How much sand should be in the bottom of a reef tank?

- Should anything be under the sand?

In the bottom of the used saltwater fish tank we recently purchased there is a layer of 1/2 pvc pipes tightly stacked side-by-side. Over the pvc pipe is a layer of 1/2" egg-crate. Over the egg-crate is apx. 2 inches of live sand. The sand is very fine, dense, and heavy.

Is this a correct setup for a reef tank?

Thank You!
Randy & Deanne

 

[matts125]

this subject has many debates...
many people do not put sand in their tanks this is called BB (bare bottom)
sand has caused me a lot a problems in the past because it slowly over time builds up toxins and noxious gases that can cause your tank to crash..

On the other hand if you want or need sand in your tank make sure to keep it no deaper then about 3'' and most importantly keep it airated by having the proper cleaning crew to stir and clean the sand these include: sand sifting stars (1 per 30 gallons) nassarius snails (1 per 5 gallons) and some brittle stars to keep the organic waste from building up..

Hope this helps...

Matt

 

[4251cpd]

Matt gives ya the goods. Also stirring the sand bed a bit (weekly) is another way to get the crap from settling and getting it into the water column and thereby letting your skimmer (if ya got it) do its job.

 

[4251cpd]

In the bottom of the used saltwater fish tank we recently purchased there is a layer of 1/2 pvc pipes tightly stacked side-by-side. Over the pvc pipe is a layer of 1/2" egg-crate. Over the egg-crate is apx. 2 inches of live sand. The sand is very fine, dense, and heavy.

BTW way welcome to RF. What you describe sounds kind of like a plenum. Google it when you have time. I would take the stuff out to check out the actual bottom and clean it good. Vinegar only. You can lay the sand directly on the bottom. 1-3"s is fine.

 

[Krish]

I agree with the others as well. I use to run a sand bed, but got rid of it because I couldn't keep up with it. Bare bottom is an acquired taste, but I love it. So much easier IMO to keep a cleaner tank that way.

 

[4251cpd]

Bare bottom is like playing football on artificial turf. Agree that its a PITA but...

 

[Quigley]

Thanks for the info.

I believe this system was intended to be a plenum (thanks for the tip). It is roughly the same as what is described here. http://tinyurl.com/yyd5rp . Because of all the potential hazards and concerns express, I am considering removing the plenum setup and going with a thin layer of sand. But I need to do a bit more reading...

If I remove the pvc pipe and egg crate, and just have a 1" sand bottom, the depth of our tank will increase from 23" to over 25". I don't want the tank to get any deeper than 23", as our recently ordered a MH/PC lights may not adequetly reach the bottom. We went conservative with our MH/PC light (2- 150 watt MH + 2 - 96 watt PC) as we are trying to keep the tank from overheating.

Question:
If we remove all the plenum hardware, I would like to replace it with something else to keep the depth at 23" or less. I am thinking of pouring a 2" Plaster of Paris base into the bottom of the tank, and covering it with a 1/2 of sand.

I'd appreciate any thoughts, sugestions, or feedback regarding.

Thank you very much!
Randy & Deanne

 

[4251cpd]

I would do 2-3"s of sand. Just me being me. That way you could get some of the more interesting verts and inverts that like to burrow. But it's up to you in the end. Good luck.

 

[Krish]

Hmm...Never used plaster of Paris before, but can it be removed later if you don't want it in the tank anymore and go to sell the tank? Other than that, maybe you can put 2 pieces of 1 inch white starboard down (or pvc board or even regular black abs plastic just using the white for the final layer) which will raise it up 2 inches and also can be easily removed later if you go to sell the tank. You can just use silicone around the perimeter of it to hold it in place and prevent and detritus from getting underneath, and later, if you go to sell the tank, all you'd need to do is cut the bead of silicone and remove it. Also, it will help with the overall look as well if you have a lot of flow down low in your tank and the sand is brushed away, you may not notice it as much as it will be white underneath anyways

Here's a pic of white pvc board siliconed in I used on a 75gal tank I once had from this thread http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12686 ...

 

[shallowreef]

I used 100lbs i believe of sand in my 210 and i have an inch and half of sand in the bottom of my tank. When i had my 90 i used 40lbs and i had about two inches in my tank.

 

[returnofsid]

If you do decide to go with sand, I'd advise staying away from Crushed Coral and sticking with Aragonite Sugar Sand. Crushed Coral tends to be an algae magnet and gets filthy quickly. It's also harder to clean than the sugar sand. As far as how much sand to use....there are 2 methods. DSB (Deep Sand Bed) of 4-6 inches...and shallow sand bed of 1/2"-1". From what I understand, the DSB is something that beginners are better off staying away from. DSB are usually associated with a Plenum System as well. If at all possible, I think beginners should go with a shallow sand bed, along with a refugium, which can have a DSB in it. Make sure you have a good sand stirring crew as well. There are several snails and starfish that are great for sifting sand. Just make sure that if you have a reef system, that you stay away from certain starfish that aren't "reef safe."

 

[Quigley]

I want to again thank everyone for their help!

I agree, Starboard or some plastic would be a much better replacement for the area occupied by the plenum than pouring plaster-of-paris into the bottom of the tank.

Kris,
Thanks for the picture, your white platic bottom board looks great! And looks to be a great fit. I can't find anyone locally selling anything like this. Did you order your plastic board online or find it locally?

In doing more reading regarding the plenum, the one we have looks to be a DIY for the eco-sand plenum. Of all the reef-tank topics we have researched this plenum seems to have the most extreme of opinions! Many report success, others say they are not worth the risk.

I'm half temped to leave it alone and give it a shot. If our water quality measures good, does that mean the plenum is working or, at least not causing a negative effect?

Thank you,
Randy & Deanne

 

[Krish]

Kris,
Thanks for the picture, your white platic bottom board looks great! And looks to be a great fit. I can't find anyone locally selling anything like this. Did you order your plastic board online or find it locally?

I got mine locally, but I guess that doesn't help you much with me living in the Bahamas As for the plenum, I don't know much about how they function although I know what they are so really, I couldn't say what to expect down the road. I know with deep sand beds, they have to be replaced after a few years before they crash (atleast that's what I've heard), but where a plenum is concerned, couldn't say. I'd probably take the safer route and not run a plenum if you aren't too sure about them because not very many people I know of run one here (atleast not the majority) so couldn't say what kind of feedback you'd get had you run into a problem with it. Just a thought...By all means if you want to try it, then that's cool! Maybe I'll learn something new

 

[dnjan]

If you decide to go with a sandbed, the most important rule is to add things to your tank very slowly, and don't overfeed. In my opinion, the biggest mistake that beginners with sandbeds make is stocking their tanks faster than the population of critters in the sandbed can multiply to take care of the detritus.

 

[dragoneggs]

Don't let lighting be a driver in your decision. The difference between 23 and 25in depth in the grand scheme of things is trivial, IMHO. Personally, I would go with a shallow sand bed and appreciate the extra volume.

 

[Haole]

I agree with dragon... It will depend on what corals you want to keep. Corals that are more light dependant could be placed higher in the reef structure and vise versa for less demanding species.

 

[Krish]

I 3rd it

 

[Quigley]

THANKS Everyone! Your feedback and comments are greatly appreciated!

I heard back from the original owner of our tank. He said the pvc/eggcrate/sand setup in the bottom of the tank is neither a Jaubert or eco-sand plenum. He said the bottom setup was originally designed by Kevin Pockell, a well respected reef keeper in our area. Kevin (KevinPro) moderates the SPS Corals forum on this board. I've sent him a private message regarding and am waiting to hear back.

Once I hear back from Kevin we can decide whether or not to keep the setup. If we pull it out, I'll go with you-all's advise and stick with a thin sand bed. My wife has asked for strong light in the bottom of the tank (she runs the marine-life side of this project). If the 25" distance is too great for our 2x 150 MH & 2x 96 PC lights, we can then look at raising the bottom a few inches.

With no local sources for pvc/starboard/marine board ($200+ mail order for enough to cover the bottom of our tank 1.5 inches). I am still thinking plaster of paris would be the way to go ($20). But will save that for a later consideration.

Again Thanks!
Merry Christmas,
Randy & Deanne

 

[J-dub]

I heard that if you use the PVC tubes with the eggcrate it will help "lock" your reef into place. A common problem is that creatures or fish burrow under the rock (by digging out the sand from under the rock) then the rock shifts and they get smooshed I have also heard to put the smaller pieces of rock on the bottom and bigger pieces on top to also help "lock" things into place. I have 2-3 inches of sand in my tank and I can tell my rocks have moved a little. When I do my new tank I'll put PVC tubes and eggcrate under the sand.

 

[Krish]

Good luck guys...Let us know how it goes