How should I deal with Cyano??

[mjslaugh]

I now have cyanobacteria growing in several places in my tank, I have adjusted the flow to hit these areas with no success. I have heard of chemicals to treat it, but I don't know if that is a good idea. I am wondering what people use and how successful it is??

 

[taichimaster]

how long has your tank been up and running? it might still be going through it's cycle. if so, then it will eventually go away. if not, then just add more power heads to increase flow. I have 4 nano koralia's in my 20 gallon.

 

[mjslaugh]

no my tank is done cycling, it has been up and running a little over a month and a half now. My tank is a 29g biocube and I have the stock powerhead and a koralia 2 resurc pump, so I believe the flow is adequate.

From the reading I have done on cyano, in order to get ride of it you have to deal with the source or whats feeding it, right?? I was kinda looking for what someone can do to an established tank to deal with those factors.

 

[DonW]

First lets understand that there is a big difference between established vs cycled. Your tank is cycled once it runs through the initial spikes and falls back down on its own. Its not established. Established is when a tank has the ability to deal with day to day changes with no bacteria ups and downs. This can take a year or two, thus why we dont see alot of truely established tanks.

Enough flow in tems of turn over rate is deceptive. You can have a good turnover rate and still not have good flow. Its not the size but what you do with it. When using power heads you are better off with a few tiny ones rather than one large one. A single large one will leave you with dead area's.

Dealing with nutrients starts at the tap. Trace the nutrients to the source. Start at the begining and move forward.

Tap water, do you use it?
Do you use a rodi?
What is your tds pre di?
Whatis your tds post di?
What do you mix your SW in?
Is the container leaching?
Is the container clean?
What salt are you using?
Have you tested for N and P in the salt mix?
Do you reduce the P before using the mix?

You get the point but it just goes on and on until your looking at what is comming out of the fishes rear end.

Don

 

[mjslaugh]

First lets understand that there is a big difference between established vs cycled. Your tank is cycled once it runs through the initial spikes and falls back down on its own. Its not established. Established is when a tank has the ability to deal with day to day changes with no bacteria ups and downs. This can take a year or two, thus why we dont see alot of truely established tanks.

Enough flow in tems of turn over rate is deceptive. You can have a good turnover rate and still not have good flow. Its not the size but what you do with it. When using power heads you are better off with a few tiny ones rather than one large one. A single large one will leave you with dead area's.

Dealing with nutrients starts at the tap. Trace the nutrients to the source. Start at the begining and move forward.

Tap water, do you use it?
Do you use a rodi?
What is your tds pre di?
Whatis your tds post di?
What do you mix your SW in?
Is the container leaching?
Is the container clean?
What salt are you using?
Have you tested for N and P in the salt mix?
Do you reduce the P before using the mix?

You get the point but it just goes on and on until your looking at what is comming out of the fishes rear end.

Don

Okay I will answer as many of those as I can and hopefully that will help.

I do not nor have not ever used tap water. I use only rodi water that I get from barbie. I use a rubbermade 20g tub to mix in with instant ocean salt and a powerhead for flow. The container is clean and the only thing to touch it is rodi water. As for those last 2 I am not sure what you are refering to but I think it is safe to say that I am not doing either of those, so does that mean I need to do something different with my water for wc??

 

[DonW]

Okay I will answer as many of those as I can and hopefully that will help.

I do not nor have not ever used tap water. I use only rodi water that I get from barbie. I use a rubbermade 20g tub to mix in with instant ocean salt and a powerhead for flow. The container is clean and the only thing to touch it is rodi water. As for those last 2 I am not sure what you are refering to but I think it is safe to say that I am not doing either of those, so does that mean I need to do something different with my water for wc??

I wasnt asking you to give us the answers. I wanted you to answer them to yourself then move on to the next piece of the puzzle. Testing fresh salt mixes is a good idea. I recenently bought a few bad buckets of IO with high P and N. Those got returned to petco. They were all back on the shelf the next day, I marked the buckets.

You have unanswered questions that I personally would want the answer to. What is the waters tds? Is the salt mix a contributing source? Once you figure those out then move on.

Make sence?

Don

 

[mjslaugh]

Oh ok, so how do I test the salt for N and P?? Also do you by chance know a good place to get a tds meter cheap??

 

[DonW]

Oh ok, so how do I test the salt for N and P?? Also do you by chance know a good place to get a tds meter cheap??

Handheld tds meters dont work well. I'd just ask the supplier. Most that have their own rodi have a inline meter, if not and HM is only $40. Testing freshly mixed water is just like testing your tank but you need a good quality test kit. I dont think the cheap ones will do the job. Salifert or Eleos would be fine.

Don

 

[mjslaugh]

Handheld tds meters dont work well. I'd just ask the supplier. Most that have their own rodi have a inline meter, if not and HM is only $40. Testing freshly mixed water is just like testing your tank but you need a good quality test kit. I dont think the cheap ones will do the job. Salifert or Eleos would be fine.

Don

KK, I just wasn't sure the way you worded that about testing the salt, i guess I took that a little to literally, I can test my mixed water, and as for the test kits I am working on building my salifert collection, but with the price of those buggers I have to do it slowly, so I am using redsea in the meantime and cross testing it with a lfs that uses salifert to test water brought to him.

Thanks Don for all the info I will start there and see where it gets me.

 

[returnofsid]

Don will give you great information!!! I agree that you're best off using Salifert or Eleos. Salifert tests are available at Barbie or Kevin's, although neither of them seem to have Phosphate tests...lol.

I'd also suggest manual removal of most of the cyano. Just suck it out, it doesn't stick to the surface very well so easily sucks out. Make sure when you're rearranging powerheads to increase flow in one area, you aren't creating other dead spots. Sometimes, you'll find dead spots that are hard to get flow to and will have to rearrange rock a little.

As for chemicals...I wouldn't suggest it ever. Cyano takes some time to get rid of, but with manual removal and increased flow, it's almost always overcome eventually. Just takes a little time.

 

[DonW]

Don will give you great information!!! I agree that you're best off using Salifert or Eleos. Salifert tests are available at Barbie or Kevin's, although neither of them seem to have Phosphate tests...lol.

I havent seen salifert P on anyones shelves for a long time, dont know whats going on there. Hanna and MW colorimeters are sort of expensive but are worth the expense in the long run for P.

Don

 

[returnofsid]

Don't mean to sidetrack the thread, but Don, it seems I've read that testing P isn't really worth doing because you won't get an accurate reading from your water column. Any truth to this? If so, can you get a more accurate reading from drawing water from holes in the live rock?

 

[DonW]

Don't mean to sidetrack the thread, but Don, it seems I've read that testing P isn't really worth doing because you won't get an accurate reading from your water column. Any truth to this? If so, can you get a more accurate reading from drawing water from holes in the live rock?

Not worth doing. I dont know who would have told you that. P along with N is one reason we have refugiums and all the systems like zeo and of course phosban and the many other gfo's. dont forget skimmers. We have organic and inorganic P. What we measure with a test kit is what is readily available to algae and of course corals. To much P and we have alot of nasty algae and some perty brown coral. P is fertilizer that will just build and build so we need to watch the input.
Accurately measureing it is not hard but the test kits can be hard to see. I cant use test kits so have to use a colorimeter.

Don

 

[returnofsid]

Thanks for the explanation!!

 

[warforged]

Well there are great threads about Cyano in here from the past...I know cause I was in them asking questions =)...

I've been through the really really bad outbreaks... and the main "source" is DOC's being high. You will get false readings on Nitrates to because the cyano is feeding on it ... for example your 20ppm reading may be actually higher but the cyano is eating it up.

Chemiclean is a very good product and many many folks use it for small outbreaks. Yours seems a bit much and it wont be solved by Chemiclean alone...if its as bad as I think.

Step 1 is to suck out every stinking piece you see.... if its on your sandbed ..definetly suck it off the sand and even the top layer of sand with it (it can reside below the top layer for later seeding)..

Step 2 do a very large water change...just punch that nitrite,nitrate,phosphate in the mouth with a good large water change.

Step 3. Add chemiclean wait the required time on the instructions and do another 20% change out of water (let it run its course).

After you do all that....you still have to identify "Why" it happened.

1. overfeeding is the main problem
2. bulbs going bad begin to change the uv spectrum that actually encourages its growth.
3. poor tank maintenance

I have the same cube. I've never had to deal with cyano in it. I dont even have power heads. Or a protein skimmer.

The question falls back to you now:
How often/and what do you do for tank maintenance?
Live stock quanity and how do you feed them..what do you feed...how often?

I've been through the most nasty Cyano break outs ever on my 55 gallon... I know that doing the cleaning steps above I finally put the halt on it.

Keyword search for old threads for Redslime... you will find a lot of information.

Remember you can clean all you like...but it wont stop it from comming back later till you identify the source of the issue. Chemiclean is just a temp fix...it wont remove the source per say.

I cant find the article I like the most but this one covers the basics:
http://www.aquariumpros.com/articles/algae.shtml Understanding our enemy the Cyanobacteria =)

 

[DonW]

Chemiclean is a very good product and many many folks use it for small outbreaks. Yours seems a bit much and it wont be solved by Chemiclean alone...if its as bad as I think.

Its also killed alot of tanks and corals. Erythromycin will directly effect the beneficial bacteria an is non selective. It also drops o2 levels down to a dangerous level if you dont have enough gas exchange.

Don

 

[warforged]

Its also killed alot of tanks and corals. Erythromycin will directly effect the beneficial bacteria an is non selective. It also drops o2 levels down to a dangerous level if you dont have enough gas exchange.

Don

Maybe you are thinking of a different product DonW. You are extremely great resource in this community. I hate to say you are wrong about anything. But I believe your statement about Chemiclean may not be on mark.

Cut Paste from Chemiclean Product ID:

*
Effectively Removes disease causing Red Slime Algae (Cyanobacteria) from your fish tank.
*
Works quickly without harming fish, invertebrates, corals or important nitrifying bacteria.
*
Oxidizes organic sludge and sediment.
*
Helps to clarify both Saltwater Aquariums and Freshwater Aquariums by removing fish tank red slime algae.
*
Promotes Ideal Enzyme Balance
*
Safe for Reef Tanks, All Invertebrates, Desirable Macro Algaes, important nitrifiying bacteria and all fish.
*
If you are looking for a red slime algae eater, consider Chemiclean, which is both Fresh water and Salt water secure.

contains no phosphates, algacides or Erythromycin succinate.

 

[DonW]

contains no phosphates, algacides or Erythromycin succinate.

Play on words Erythromycin succinate. What about Erythromycin cetyl sulfate, Erythromycin estolate, Erythromycin stearate, Erythromycin base, Erythromycin amides? Its already been show to have erythromycin, the form is unknown. Chances are pretty good we can eliminate succinate.

Don

 

[warforged]

Play on words Erythromycin succinate. What about Erythromycin cetyl sulfate, Erythromycin estolate, Erythromycin stearate, Erythromycin base, Erythromycin amides? Its already been show to have erythromycin, the form is unknown. Chances are pretty good we can eliminate succinate.

Don

Cool ... medical terminology 1 and 2 has long been gone from my memory banks ....