Hunt & Capture for Disease Identification & Therapy

[jeremys78]

Three questions:
1. How to capture a Royal Gramma basslet from a system?
2. How to identify disease (I only suspect it is present)?
3. How to treat said disease once it is verified & identified?

Let's tackle these one at a time.

First:
I have tried to take macro's of her in the tank to illustrate the tiny (approx 100-500 micron diameter) white spots which have appeared on the head, fins (pectoral & dorsal) in a very diffuse pattern without any remarkable shape or aggregation except they seem to be heavier in the front dorsal area and less dense (almost indistinguishable).
From appearances alone, I thought that they might be microbubbles deposited from my skimmer, but perhaps this is only wishful thinking b/c none of the other fishes have it. Also, she is exhibiting shy behavior (a change from her usual bully attitude), more frequent hiding, occasional gill-scratching behavior (not quite rock slam-dancing yet), but still eats well, swims fine, and seems curious & vibrant.

I will post the semi-decent pictures I have of these "spots" tonight when I can shrink down the file size. I would love to get the group opinion on what it may be.

Looking forward and planning for the worst - how to capture the little bugger? Sunken vase / bottle with food, commercial fish-trap, remove all my rock (AARGH!)

 

[jeremys78]

Not eating tonight - spots appear worse...

Any ideas?

 

[Krish]

They way bahamians catch them here is by shinning an underwater light in their face which sort of stuns them to be caught. I've never tried it before, but the guys from the LFS here do it all the time and have always had success catching them. HTH just don't go using a spot light if you try it and cook the little fellow(LOL)

 

[steve-s]

How long have you had the royal and are the "spots" doing the off and on scenario? Do you notice any red sores/blotchs or any scales standing on end?

What was the last fish added, how long ago, what other tank mates and do you have a QT?

Cheers
Steve

 

[My2heartboys]

Any ideas?

I don't know a whole lot--but could it be a parasite? Maybe ick or some sort of rot? What about any recent new additions? Do you know where they came from?

I know this didn't help any and please know that I didn't say it to put you down--just asking the first questions that come to mind.

Anne

 

[jeremys78]

How long have you had the royal and are the "spots" doing the off and on scenario? Do you notice any red sores/blotchs or any scales standing on end?

Had her for approximately 5+ months.
I thought I noticed (barely perceptible) spots a while ago, but thought nothing of it. I guess I just chalked it up to my imagination or micro-bubbles adhering to her sides.
No red sores / blotches / hematoma / ulcers that I can see.
No "dropsy" like symptoms of bloat / swelling / bug-eye
Her gill scratching behavior was notably worse last night and I haven't had a chance to observe yet today.

What was the last fish added, how long ago, what other tank mates and do you have a QT?

Last fish added was wrasse & firefish approximately 3 mos. ago
Ocellaris, RBTA, etc were the original inhabitants of the tank. (~11mos)
I do have a QT which I use to house new fish NLT 3 weeks.

Oh! I added a beautiful 13lb chunk of LR (from Lakewood LFS) just about 3 weeks ago but didn't even think of QT for it. Damn - it just dawned on me that a rock could possibly transmit the same disease organisms / parasite, that a live "animal" could. Jeeez - I feel pretty stupid if that is what happened.

 

[jeremys78]

They way bahamians catch them here is by shinning an underwater light in their face which sort of stuns them to be caught. I've never tried it before, but the guys from the LFS here do it all the time and have always had success catching them...

That sounds like a cool idea, but my diving light is nothing compared to my 250W DE MH pendant! LOL. Maybe I can give the tank a "dim light" day and then blast her with my little diving light while I try to scoop her...
Cool idea - thanks!

 

[My2heartboys]

Had her for approximately 5+ months.
I thought I noticed (barely perceptible) spots a while ago, but thought nothing of it. I guess I just chalked it up to my imagination or micro-bubbles adhering to her sides.
No red sores / blotches / hematoma / ulcers that I can see.
No "dropsy" like symptoms of bloat / swelling / bug-eye
Her gill scratching behavior was notably worse last night and I haven't had a chance to observe yet today.

Last fish added was wrasse & firefish approximately 3 mos. ago
Ocellaris, RBTA, etc were the original inhabitants of the tank. (~11mos)
I do have a QT which I use to house new fish NLT 3 weeks.

Oh! I added a beautiful 13lb chunk of LR (from Lakewood LFS) just about 3 weeks ago but didn't even think of QT for it. Damn - it just dawned on me that a rock could possibly transmit the same disease organisms / parasite, that a live "animal" could. Jeeez - I feel pretty stupid if that is what happened.

I know it wasn't a lot, but I am glad I helped you be able to narrow where it came from at least.

You might go back and see what their livestock is doing.

Anne

 

[big t]

Well why dont you get a fish trap? I know that Indoor Reef has one that I made that works like a champ. They may let you borrow it for a few days or something. If not I could probably be convinced to make another one if they won't cooperate.

 

[jeremys78]

Well why dont you get a fish trap? I know that Indoor Reef has one that I made that works like a champ. They may let you borrow it for a few days or something. If not I could probably be convinced to make another one if they won't cooperate.

UPDATE:
I didn't see her out tonight, but the wife reports that Gramma ate two tiny specks of food - because they happened to float past her face. I don't think that the fish will respond particularly well to food in the tank or a trap, but I may have to try if the "shine a light in their face" trick doesn't work.

Report of a more "mealy" looking fish with a "rough" external appearance. I suspect that this may be a secondhand description of raised scales? Also, report is that the spots are much more in number and visibility.

I am guessing that I will have to catch her tomorrow because she has already disappeared for the night, but it is evident that she will have to be removed for treatment.

 

[steve-s]

Report of a more "mealy" looking fish with a "rough" external appearance. I suspect that this may be a secondhand description of raised scales? Also, report is that the spots are much more in number and visibility.

It's really hard for me to say one way or the other by those pics you've posted so how you relay the "appearances" and symptoms is very important. Treatment is usually the easy part, diagnosis is the make or break decision. If your 100% sure that the fish is displaying the common spots of C irritans and the "on again off again" behavior of the spots, then that's the treatment direction you should proceed with. The part that concerns me, is in those pics I am seeing what looks like scales slightly raised off the fish with white patchy tufts. Please be sure your actually seeing the telltale spots on the fish and not merely patchy parts of the skin/scales raised off the body. If both, it could indicate secondary infection setting in (not too common this early) or possibley Uronema but that is usually associated with red lesions as it advances.

In either case, getting the fish into the QT is the first step and I would do so without delay. Are any of the other fish exhibiting symptoms in any way? If C. irritans, they will also need to be removed...!

It has been two days since your first post in this regard, how many days ago did you first notice this when you thought it might just be bubbles or debris?

Oh! I added a beautiful 13lb chunk of LR (from Lakewood LFS) just about 3 weeks ago but didn't even think of QT for it. Damn - it just dawned on me that a rock could possibly transmit the same disease organisms / parasite, that a live "animal" could. Jeeez - I feel pretty stupid if that is what happened.

If the rock was freshly harvested or in a holding tank containing fish (connected to fish systems), there is a fairly large chance it can bring in a parasite. If there where fish in this holding tank, do you remember what species?

Cheers
Steve

 

[Tangee]

Jeremy,
I have a fish trap you can borrow if you need it. I'm in Puyallup, just drop me a line and I'll give you my phone number if you're interested.

Susie