ick question
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Herefishyfishy
Smart Bass
I agree with above. That's a common misconception that Ich is always present in aquariums. I believed it for the longest time myself. Also, A fishless system will eventually kill Ich but you've gotta wait out their life and reproduction cycle. Steve-S is probably the best guy to talk to about this. I'm sure he'll chime in soon. Fishless AND hyposalinity is what I'd recommend....but hypo will harm or kill inverts.
steve-s
Well-known member
Good advice above. If someone has Cryptocaryon is in their tank, it was put there. Sounds harsh but it's quite true. This as well as any other parasite is easily prevented from entering your main display system by the use of a quarantine system. They are not just for fish though.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.php
On the article linked to by Herefishyfishy (Mike), it's important to note that not all of those treatment options are always effective. There are in fact currently only 3 treatment nearly 100% effective when preformed correctly.
1. Hyposalinity
2. Copper (Preferabley Cupramine)
3. The three day transfer method
Others would be 50/50 at best. Not very good odds.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.php
On the article linked to by Herefishyfishy (Mike), it's important to note that not all of those treatment options are always effective. There are in fact currently only 3 treatment nearly 100% effective when preformed correctly.
1. Hyposalinity
2. Copper (Preferabley Cupramine)
3. The three day transfer method
Others would be 50/50 at best. Not very good odds.
Herefishyfishy
Smart Bass
And to add my two bits to what Steve says, 50/50 is not very good odds when you are putting your fish's survival at risk.
reefgirl78
Well-known member
Ya Steve-S is totally right. Just to add something too, a friend of mine had an ick free system for over 4 years and no introductions and she quarantined all corals too, then about 2 months ago she added a xenia from a local LFS right into the main display, and it killed her clown. Crazy to think. What really pissed her off was that the xenia did not make it either! -Alison
So inverts can be carriers of Ich as well? That's something I didn't know. Care to elaborate on this "3 day transfer method?" Never heard of it.
burning2nd
Well-known member
anything wet can carry
steve-s
Well-known member
Exactly correct. It doesn't matter what it is if it's wet. Dry items are not a concern. C. irritans cannot survive if air dried.
You would need 2 QT's minimum. Once a fish is added to the QT, three days are allowed to pass. The fish is then transfered (no net) to the second QT. The first tank is then torn down, sterilized, dried and reset up. Once 3 days in tank 2 are up, it's transfered back to the sterilized tank.
This process is repeated for a total of 4 transfers.
While it is an effective treatment, it is very very stressful on the fish so caution should be used on which fish are put through this process. Delicate fish would not normally survive the stressful transitioning.
So if Ich will live on anything wet....what makes having a NO fish tank for 6 weeks effective? Although, when I did it, I also used hyposalinity. I also see that having a fishless tank for any period of time isn't one of the 3 you mentioned as being effective...lol. I'll stick with hypo if I ever get it again. Or, I can see the benefit of copper treatment if you can catch the fish and get it into a QT. It would seem that copper in a QT would be a quicker treatment.
burning2nd
Well-known member
well qt'n the fish (from what i understand) will give the virus time to either die, or grow....
if it grows you treat it....
if it doesnt grow, then it starve's out to death...... (i think)
basicly its eazyer to treat a fish or a coral in a tank thats small and eazy to control perameter.... (hypo, copper, exc) then doin it in your main system
if it grows you treat it....
if it doesnt grow, then it starve's out to death...... (i think)
basicly its eazyer to treat a fish or a coral in a tank thats small and eazy to control perameter.... (hypo, copper, exc) then doin it in your main system
reefgirl78
Well-known member
Well I am no expert, but that 3 day transfer solution wouldn't just kill any fish as once you transfered it back to the 3rd and final destination in a sterilized tank. Wouldn' you probably kill the fish as it is not cycled water unless I am not understanding correctly?
I think just a QT and wait it out with Copper or Hyposalinity technique is probably better on a fish in the longrun.
You can not QT corals unless you have a separate reef tank so you're kinda outa luck it seems either way.
They need to invent a solution that you pour or dip a fish in that instantly kills all ick and then no need to wait forever.
-Ali
I think just a QT and wait it out with Copper or Hyposalinity technique is probably better on a fish in the longrun.
You can not QT corals unless you have a separate reef tank so you're kinda outa luck it seems either way.
They need to invent a solution that you pour or dip a fish in that instantly kills all ick and then no need to wait forever.
-Ali
steve-s
Well-known member
Slight misunderstanding/communication. C. irritans can be transported on/in any wet. It must have fish present to continue it's life cycle. Since we do not know every step in the capture/transportation/LFS, we assume there is at least the potential for these problems and isolate them until the animal/item is proven to be uninfected/uninfested. If it does, then we treat accordingly.
"cause it doesn't treat the fish infested by it.
When dealing solely C. irritans, Hyposalinity is usually the best option for the fish.
steve-s
Well-known member
When you transfer the fish you leave behind the Tomonts and any unattached stages.
An uncycled tank is of no concequence. The water is not the problem, only potential ammonia. That is easily controlled vi a miriad of product and/or water changes.
If your sure your treating C. irritans only, hyposalinity is the best option.
You would need a separate system for fish and invertebrate/non fish items. The set up would be pretty much the same as the fish QT only lighting may be required although it does not need to be anything fancy. For the short period of time the "non fish" item would need to be QT'd, minimal fluorescent would be fine.
Seems kinda pointless to QT/treat fish only to add it when introducing something else.
reefgirl78
Well-known member
Thanks for sorting out all the confusion.
-Ali
-Ali
Gotcha, I understand what you mean now. I could transport Ich into the tank with corals or other inverts...but the Ich actually needs fish to complete it's life cycle. So a fishless tank could have ich introduced but the ich would die out. But then could be introduced again by anything wet in the future. I now see why it's said to QT anything wet, including inverts and even live rock.
it all makes sense to me. I asked the original question because i have read about the life cycles of ick and was under the impression that without a host the parasite would die off. I was talking with some other reefers who insisted that ick was always present within your tank and it left me a little confused as to the truth. One response was to let your fish die off if they were cheap and replace them. lol thanks guys for clearing it up for me.
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