Iodine dosing

[trout]

Hi again:embarassed:,

I dose iodine to my reef tank primarily because I grow chaeto in my sump, which seems to benefit from it.

I can find two types of iodine supplement products (well in fact three if I take the lugol solution from my local pharmacist into account) in the market. They are: potassium iodide based iodine supplements and Salifert Iodine, which contains calcium and magnesium salts of iodate and iodide. I use the Salifert natural iodine.

My question is what is the difference between Salifert iodine and potassium iodide based products?

Thank you

:wave:

 

[mojoreef]

Salfert iodine is basically Potassium Iodate (IO3-) and the others are Potassium iodide (I-). So the concept for Salfert is that Iodine is present in natural open seawater and that this is caused by planktonic critters that reduce the Potassium Iodate to potassium iodide. Sooooo if you supply the Iodate it will be taken up naturally by planktonics and result in iodide being released for others??

Make sense?


Mike

 

[Chichas01]

Do you test for Iodine? Generally, if you don't/can't test it, don't dose it. Regular water changes with a decent salt should really be all you need outside of some dosing for CA and ALK.

 

[trout]

Salfert iodine is basically Potassium Iodate (IO3-) and the others are Potassium iodide (I-). So the concept for Salfert is that Iodine is present in natural open seawater and that this is caused by planktonic critters that reduce the Potassium Iodate to potassium iodide. Sooooo if you supply the Iodate it will be taken up naturally by planktonics and result in iodide being released for others??

Make sense?


Mike

Not quite. Sorry. I am not a chemistry expert, but potassium iodide seems to have a different formula ([url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_iodide]Potassium iodide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]) Am I right?

Do you test for Iodine? Generally, if you don't/can't test it, don't dose it. Regular water changes with a decent salt should really be all you need outside of some dosing for CA and ALK.

Thanks for the warning.Yes, I can test it using the Salifert test kit. Habib, the owner of Salifert, gave me revised instructions that enable me to get iodide and iodate readings.

 

[mojoreef]

Yea I gave you the formulas for Iodate and Iodide with out the potassium So add the potassium to both KIO3 for potassium Iodate and KI for the iodide

 

[Boomer]

Some errors here boys and girls

All " Iodine" sup's are Potassium Iodate, Potassium Iodide, Potassiium Iodite, Iodine or mixtures of them. A proper sup should be mostly Potassium Iodate with a small amount of Potassium Iodide, as it is NSW. The others are so low you can not even can barely detect them. There are such thing as Calcium and/or Magnesium " Iodines" but are not used in this hobby as far as I know and such sup's would be very pricey. So called Natural is a very misleading term, as there is no such thing as Potaassium Iodide or Iodate floating around in seawater. The term really means that the ratios of the Iodine species are on par with NSW. When one dumps in Potassium Iodate/Iodide they dissolve and break up into Potassium and Iodate/Iodide. You need what we call a carrier ion as there is no such thing as buying just Iodate or Iodide. Just like when you add Cacium using Calcium chloride. You need the Calcium but don't need to be adding that choride but there us no way around it.

The ratios of Iodine species in NSW really has nothing to do with plankton. Iodine speciation is controlled by the pH and mostly the pE, ie., redox, state of oxidation, where that state in NSW favors mostly Iodate. Speciation by biological control is very well known. However, most Iodine uptake is Iodide where it is converted to Iodate for assimilation. Why ? Iodate is a big ion and does not pass into the cell walls very easily. So, Iodate is quite hard to uptake. But ther are some marine algaes that can take up either and covert them to which ever species of Iodine they need. Bacteria are a little different, where it is not much of an issue to uptake Iodate and convert it to Iodide.

 

[trout]

Thanks Boomer. What you wrote about "Calcium and/or Magnesium "iodines"" is very interesting. I have just looked at what is written on the "Salifert Natural Iodine" bottle I use to supplement iodine to my reef tank. It says: "Salifert's Natural Iodine supplement contains a large portion of iodate and also some iodide in similar proportions as NSW. Both are present as their calcium and magnesium salts, this has been done because Salifert's research has shown that iodate, is complexed with calcium and magnesium in NSW".

 

[mojoreef]

At the Des Moines Macna i was in a conversation with Habib and another fellow about his suppliments and one of them was the iodine. Hemadethe claim of studies pointing to iodate being the primary uptake by various planktonic forms (along with others) andthst the iodide was the byproduct. Anyway i asked for the studies and he sent them to me, they seemed to back uup his claim.

I willlook for them and shoot them over to ya.

Mike

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Boomer]

Iodate is a major up take of some plankton. I more or less said it here.

But ther are some marine algaes that can take up either and covert them to which ever species of Iodine they need. Bacteria are a little different, where it is not much of an issue to uptake Iodate and convert it to Iodide.

This ^is from Wong, a condensed short remark from me. I have at home his very long article on the speciation off iodine in seawater. On my way to Tx now.


But the preferred up take by most plankton, if we did a species count of zoo and phyto, is still Iodide.

I'll bet your ref is Wong, the worlds leading authority on Iodine in Sawater. It was me that first should Randy and Habib Wong's work.

Maybe your ref is new Wong stuff I have not seen.

 

[Boomer]

Trout

I did not know it said that on the bottle salts of Calcium and Magnesium. Whether it is complexed with Calcium in seawater means much of nothing, life forms can not really use it. When you add that Salifert sup it dissolves the same as Potassium Iodate, Iodide or Calcium chloride. So, I find Habibs's claim just a sales gimmick.

 

[trout]

At the Des Moines Macna i was in a conversation with Habib and another fellow about his suppliments and one of them was the iodine. Hemadethe claim of studies pointing to iodate being the primary uptake by various planktonic forms (along with others) andthst the iodide was the byproduct. Anyway i asked for the studies and he sent them to me, they seemed to back uup his claim.

I willlook for them and shoot them over to ya.

Mike

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Thanks.

Is this the article? It was written 10 years ago.

Trout

I did not know it said that on the bottle salts of Calcium and Magnesium. Whether it is complexed with Calcium in seawater means much of nothing, life forms can not really use it. When you add that Salifert sup it dissolves the same as Potassium Iodate, Iodide or Calcium chloride. So, I find Habibs's claim just a sales gimmick.

Thanks Boomer. You have answered my original question. I thought Salifert Iodine was something special, but could not possibly tell why it was different from other iodine products due to my lack of knowledge in chemistry. I am so glad to have joined this forum.

Out of interest, I would like to know what iodine supplements the members of this forum use (if they use it at all).

 

[rayjay]

I haven't use it in my 19 yrs of reefing and I believe Randy Holmes-Farley no longer does either.

 

[trout]

I haven't use it in my 19 yrs of reefing and I believe Randy Holmes-Farley no longer does either.

I think I am going to stop dosing too. What I have noticed recently is that after each iodine dosing I get diatoms on my sand bed. I suspect that I am overdosing despite testing.

 

[mojoreef]

But the preferred up take by most plankton, if we did a species count of zoo and phyto, is still Iodide.

I'll bet your ref is Wong, the worlds leading authority on Iodine in Sawater. It was me that first should Randy and Habib Wong's work.

Not sure Boom, I will dig a bit and look. What I was saying was that Habib had said that what made his different from others is that used almost all Iodate as their studies had proved it was the better vehical for bringing both iodate and then Iodide after conversion??

For me its neither here nor their as I never use it.


Mojo

 

[Boomer]

I do not have time to read them Mojo, on the road.


http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps2002/237/m237p027.pdf

http://www.csulb.edu/~slmanley/1653.pdf

http://www.int-res.com/articles/feature/b011p001.pdf


Iodide is the preferred chemical species of iodine for uptake under nitrate-replete conditions: iodide accumulation rates ranged from 3 to 90 times larger than those for iodate for the species studied. If the iodate accumulated is tightly coupled to its reduction to iodide, the accumulation rates suggest that phytoplankton-mediated iodate reduction is not environmentally significant. If diatoms can reduce iodate to iodide, their overall contribution to surface-water iodide, while living, would be further reduced because of their ability to reassimilate released iodide.

 

[trout]

Diatom bloom in my tank shortly after each iodine dosing started to make sense now.

There are no silicates in my water column and I use Rowa Phos, which is known to remove/reduce silicates. I do not know what "nitrate-replete conditions" exactly means, but my Salifert test kit hardly shows any nitrates (I cannot see any pink colouration in my test vial) and I have no other form of micro algae other than some bubble algae in my tank (I have chaeto though).

Moreover, past Salifert Iodine tests never showed any iodide in my water column. I always get iodate readings (ref: "diatoms ability to convert iodides to iodates in nitrate replete conditions"?).

I am going to cease to dose iodine for a few months to see what happens.

 

[pandora32]

That sounds like a plan. Just make sure and let us know whats happening. I have plenty of nutriants in my water for my cheato, but enjoy learning. Who knows, may even need the info in the future.