Is the data at this link for SPS corals are correct?

[OldManOfTheSea]

http://www.saltcorner.com/sections/zoo/inverts/softcorals/octocorals1/octocorals1.htm
At this link is from where im getting many ideas in some SPS corals which I could possibly have in the 150 gal tank. It will again have four 175 watt MH bulbs with VHO and the tank im told is 29" in height.

Now being im reading for most of these corals that they are rarely seen in the trade, I have to believe that their main facts on each coral requirements aren't correct and to the point. Before I proceed down the road with this, I like to know if what im reading at this link is the correct data on each coral>

Here are some that im to do further search on before making up my mind in the type of coral I would list as a possibly selection for the 150>

Common Name: Encrusting Pineapple Coral
Species Name: Acanthastrea faviaformis
medium light and medium water movement
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Common Name: Staghorn Coral
Species Name: Acropora abrolhosensis
requires medium light and moderate water movement
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Scientific Name: Montipora capricornis
Common Names: Purple rimmed Cap
Lighting: Seems to do well under moderate to strong lighting. Strong lighting tends to give it a lighter coloration. Recommend Metal halide or VHO/PC lighting Tank Positioning: Best if kept in the middle to upper portion of the tank where it can get maximum light and moderate to high water flow
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Common Name: Squamosa / Fluted Giant Clam
Species Name: Tridacna squamosa
Requires medium light and good water movement
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Common Name: Cup / Chalice / Turban Coral
Species Name: Turbinaria peltata
requires moderate light and moderate water movement
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Common Name: Maze Coral
Species Name: Platygyra daedalea
moderate to intense lighting and fairly good water movement
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Common Name: Plate Coral / Green-eyed Cup Coral / Elephant Nose Coral / Peacock Coral
Species Name: Mycedium elephantotus
will extend feeding tentacles at night along with sweeper tentacles. Appears to do better under moderate to intense lighting and with moderate water flow. Do not place closer than a few inches (7 cm) to other corals as it can destroy the tissue of others corals that are located downstream of it
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Common Name: Column Montipora
Species Name: Montipora hispida
requires moderate lighting and gentle water movement. Is adaptable to lower light conditions
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Common Name: Velvet Horn / Thorny Coral
Species Name: Hydnophora rigida
moderate light and water movement and can be fed zooplankton type foods
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Common Name: Branching Flowerpot Coral
Species Name: Goniopora pandoraensis
Low to medium fluorescent light rather than metal halide lamps, and gentle water movement
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Common Name: Acropora Coral
Species Name: Acropora variolosa
requires moderate to strong lighting with good water movement
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Common Name: Purple Acropora
Species Name: Acropora tortuosa
Requires medium light and moderate water movement
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Common Name: Stick Acropora
Species Name: Acropora suharsonoi
Requires medium light and moderate water movement
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Common Name: Acropora Coral
Species Name: Acropora schmitti
requiring moderate to strong lighting with good water movement

Now are they correct in their listed requirements or is it that im wasting much time?
Im looking for to see that I not need to make this 150 a soft coral only tank>

Thanks
Buddy

 

[Jan]

Which kind of 175 watt bulbs will you be using? I used to use the Iwasaki 15K 175 watt bulbs....they have the best PAR of any of the 175 watt bulbs, but still I could only place SPS corals (with the exception of monti caps) in the top portion of my 24" tank.

Your 29" tank is pretty tall, especially for 175 watt bulbs. Some of your selections I would be concerned about not getting enough light, like your Squamosa clam which I think is supposed to be on the bottom of the tank. I'm not a coral expert but I think the info. you posted on lighting requirements is closer to being accurate than not, so anything saying that it's best with "moderately intense light" may not do too well, unless it is directly underneath your halide.

 

[roscoe]

You will find people here recommend 250w at minimal 400watts would be best for the depth of your tank. 24'' or less 250w 24'' or more 400w is what I have always been told and read about.

 

[OldManOfTheSea]

Jan, I told or it was said that the person who had created that link, his or her coral data is only a matter of that person opinion for I found to many SPS corals all in one location, an I was believing that I be lucky if I found just a few. If worst comes to worst on the idea I have for this 150 gal reef tank, I would just stick to the idea of soft and low lighting corals.

I also ruled out the idea on attempting higher lighting required corals and look to position them so higher up in the tank, for which I would need to have the LR as high up as some 6-7" below the water line. That would give the coral no enough space for their normal growth.

I to thought about asking others who a large tank as a 150 and up with even a bit less on MH. But to look to copy another persons tank isn't the answer for the idea cam up that the lights would be moved over from the 240 to the 150, that will make it that I wouldn't loose so much. Also, I will have 250 watts MH on both the 150 and 240. I might even later in a few years from now when I can start to rebuild the 240, I might raise the lighting to 400 watts.

So in saying all that, I not want all the tanks to be near the same so that I could manage different coral species. And in order to have the same type of corals I will get for the other tanks, I would then be needing 4x400 watts MH and three tanks as near the same, I think be a bit too much. I already know that with the present plans im with that my electric bill will be a bit more then another $125 a month, giving me an average bill a month around $250. My bill now averages at $119 a month.

So Jan and roscoe, I have a number of corals books, I will search through them and with the 4x175 with VHO, from 1 to 10, how strong you say that is in a 29" tall tank? Im figuring its half like 5 and 7 higher in the tank with a 3 at the bottom>

So, I will do a coral search and see if I could find something other then what I use to keep when I done VHO tanks>

The other thing here is as well, if im too get 400 watt MH for this 150 and the 250 watt MH for the other tanks, I need to do all the tanks lighting here, I wouldn't be able then to start even the 150 what if it be Jan or if we go to Disney in February with my grand kids, I would then start when I get back from that trip, I not know for sure yet if the trip is on or not.

Their is another idea I gotten here, if it be an issue to do anything with higher lights on the 150, then maybe I take and start the 180 and leave that tank with the 175 watt MH. But the 180 has three 175 watt MH bulbs. Would it be ideal to add another 175 to that? I can have it done, or see if this can be done from the 240 over to the 180. The 180 is 24" tall>

I will already have the calcium reactor I have now for the 180 and early on will add the phosphate reactor. Any thoughts on this?

If I do that, I would leave the idea with the 240 to have 250 watts MH and after when the 180 is completed in live stocking, I would then do the lights on the 150. And what if I do this 4x400 watt MH? Either way I go here, the lights were to be switched from the 240 to the 150, now I would have it done from the 240 to the 180>

Now what if I were to have all the tanks with 400 watt MH? Do you think this is crazy? And again, if I cannot use the 175 watt MH bulbs I now have, i would then need to save to get either the 250 or 400 watts> And I wouldn't be able to start any tank until the lights are done on one of these tanks.

What you think and what would you do in my place? And remember this, that you would be needing to get the cash together before the job can be done.

Thanks
Buddy

And a PS, If im to then wait until I can get either 250 watt MH on the 180 or 400 watt MH on the 150, I wouldnt be starting one of these tanks until the end of April if the Disney trip is on and the end of Feb if there be no trip>

 

[Jan]

Buddy,

No doubt I am missing some of your questions with this response,

But if it were me, I would not use the 175's on the 150 (29" tall). I would use 400's on that tank.

However, you could use the 175's on your 180 (24" tall), if you get a high PAR bulb like the Iwasaki 15K's--these bulbs really make a difference--and supplement with actinics to temper the white cast of the Iwasakis and add more light. In this 180 you could have a mixture of soft corals, LPS, and some medium light loving SPS corals in the upper rockwork. That could be a very nice tank. If you wanted a more SPS dominated tank in this 180, then I think you should go for 250's instead of the 175's. (And yes, I personally think it would be crazy to put 400's on all the tanks because of the heat and electricity bill.)

I'm not sure I understood what your specific question was regarding your calcium reactor?

As for how many lights to put on the 180, I like the luminarc reflectors and I think that 3 bulbs in the luminarc reflectors would be excellent.

 

[roscoe]

I think you need to concentrate on one tank at a time because it is getting pretty confusing with what you are trying to say and do.

 

[OldManOfTheSea]

In short Jan, The reactor that I have right now on the 180 is to be replaced with the reactor that was put in for the 240, I only the reactor that fish world not giving me the rest to run this reactor and i will run it with the CO2 I have on the 180. But on the idea of 175 MH on the 180, i will loose much in not having 250 on this tank. I did at first have the idea that if I have the 4x175 MH on the 150, that i wouldnt be able to do all as much , if anything with SPS corals, and all i would need to do is search through my coral books for ideas other then SPS corals> Because of the 180 and 240, im placing much in what you and other say in this. This is something i want to do more then just right. Or maybe see and speak to Kevin and see if one the other 175 MH bulbs can be added to the 150, I not know if this is feasible or not.

Also, i wouldn`t have 400 MH on all three tanks, If i were to go with 400 MH on the 150, then both the 180 and 240 would stay with the idea of 250 watt MH. Jan, im no WIZ when it comes to lighting, other then I know that I need better then what i want.

Buddy

PS. roscoe, I am to do one tank first, stock and then move to the next>

 

[roscoe]

Well lets talk about just doing one tank instead of mixing in all the other tank because to be honest it is confusing trying to desipher what you are trying to accomplish.

 

[OldManOfTheSea]

Having thre tanks sitting here and trying to think in what to do is driving me crazy, but in short, the only tanks I will be concentrating on , one then then the next are the 150 and 180.

 

[roscoe]

Having thre tanks sitting here and trying to think in what to do is driving me crazy, but in short, the only tanks I will be concentrating on , one then then the next are the 150 and 180.

I undertand what you mean when you say( its driving me crazy) It is doing the same to me. Like I say lets just talk about the one tank that you are trying to set up 1st. Then maybe someone can figure out what you are trying to do.

 

[OldManOfTheSea]

I went looking in garf to see if I can get any idea in what I might do here and I viewed their great reefs folder and I seen this:

Tank – 120 gallon acrylic tank with acrylic sump,
Lighting: VHO 7 - 46.5" URI flourescent tubes, 2-Icecap ballasts. 4-Blue, 3 white
Stony Corals: Montipora digita, montipora capricornus, Acropora, Millipora
Soft Corals: Capnella, sarcophyton, Xenia, green star polyps, zoanthids

Now is the lighting this tank shows is greater then the 175 watt MH, and also I will have VHO as well?

I need to get settled to the point were im set now with what equipment im to get, and now I need to settle to what my lighting will be on both, the 150 and 180. And yes, i will do just one tank at a time here, but I first need to get past this lighting issue.

Being the 150 is 29" in depth, what if to save the cost on some of the lights I now have and place these on the 180? Should I run four 175 MH bulbs or see if Kevin can put five?

And this way, i would then do this 180 reef tank first and once completed with most live stock, I would then move to start up the 150, and I would then get four 400 watt MH with VHO. And there is for now until these two tanks are completed, no further discussions on the 240 for there will be enough to do with just the 150 and 180.

The 180 is 24" depth tank, if I were to run 4x 175 watt MH on this 180, will it be lesser light then the 120 gal tank I found at Garf? And, I will speak to Kevin again to see what if he could with the 7x 175 watt MH bulbs, use five of these on the 180, would this be of some improvement? If I can do this and have a good deal of lighting, i would had saved most of the lighting that was placed on the 180 and 240.

I know also that amount of lighting on the 180 wouldn't be enough for any major SPS corals with higher lighting requirements>

Thanks for assisting me on this nightmare

Buddy

 

[kevinpo]

Hello,
Here is what I recommend
For the 180 3 - 175W bulbs with a couple of 72" VHO's will be fine for the corals listed except the Acropora. The one Acropora that will do fine with 175W is the A. suharsonoi. Although it is not on your list A. yongei and A. valida will also do well (read be very colorful) under 175W bulbs.

In regards to the 150 gallon 3 - 250W DE bulbs would work nicely with a liverock height of 12-15". This will still allow good coral growth space while providing enough light penetration.

HTH,
Kevin

 

[OldManOfTheSea]

HI Kevin, I was hoping to hear from you on this, Like I said, im no wiz here with the lighting, Im only trying now to recuperate after the wrong person put me in lighting I not ask for for if the 250 were on both tanks now as they should had been I wouldn't be having this discussion. There is three 175 watts MH now on the 180, what I know on this is that all the MH bulbs, all seven are from different companies are so. One the bulbs says Blueline 175 10K 04/05 and im not able to remove the VHo bulbs, I could only read their Ultraviolets and there are two, one on each side.

I can deal with doing without one thing or more in this 180, after all, i was about to run the 150 on mostly only soft corals>

Now if from what im saying to you here isnt enough lighting, I can have Kevin at Down under switch over the four set 175 watt MH from the 240 onto the 180 and it has two VHO as well, SuperActinic FR72T12/VHO.
But on the 150 gal tank thoughts, the tank is 6' and 29" deep, so if not agree on 400 watt MH, then what of 4x 250 double ended bulbs?

Thanks
Buddy

PS, you also seen that any equipment I will now get will be from Deltec?

Another PS. If I could get four 250 watt MH as mention for the 150, I would then when it comes time to rebuild the 240, do that tank with 4x400 watts MH>

 

[kevinpo]

Hello Buddy,
With good reflectors you should never have to run more than 3 halides on a 6' long tank. This will reduce heat and power consumption which is always a good thing . Halides in efficient reflectors hung at the right height will produce about a 24" x 24" area of light that is acceptable for corals. You do not gain any more light intensity by adding more bulbs (this is one of the weaknesses of using the watts per gallon measurement) just the angle the high light strikes the corals.

Deltec makes fine equipment but not worth the price IMHO. I saw some very nice new RK2 products at MACNA last month and I believe their pricing might be better but I can't remember exactly (I'm old and saw too many displays )

I would see how the 250's perform (color spectrum, intensity, etc.) on the 150 gallon first before making the decision on the lighting for the 240 gallon.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[OldManOfTheSea]

Hi Kevin, I know many have their misfortunes with deltec as with many equipment could be no different, but that is my understanding being were dealing with man made products. I been reading a few threads at RC, and the calcium reactor im to get for the 150 , many been having some issues with and im wondering if I should go with Geo or not.

I do gather from your saying and understand of the heating and so that 400 MH wouldn't be as required on the 150.

I been however trying to get a better understanding to what im trying to do here and im no Wiz when it comes to lighting, but only have or from most of what I seen through the years that 250 and 400 watt MH are best.

So I see from what your saying by adding a fifth 175 watt MH bulb wouldn't add much to the tanks lighting WPG that is.

I do see from much problems others be having that the price for deltec is a high cost for some headaches.

Kevin, do you think i should dump the idea of using the 175 watt MH? I can deal with this is I must and of course, it would cause some further delays until the lighting mis in place on either the 150 or 180> but if I do, or it be a must that I get 250 watt MH on all three tank, I then will not know if I can deal with the possible electric cost to have 400 watt mh on the 240.

I called my electrical company and on the assumption of having 7x250 watt MH bulbs with 4x175,, running some 9 hours and this not include the vho and fuge lamps, that my possible billing from that a lone be around $75. So I figure at most with everything that my total extra billing would be around $150 a month at most. I will also have three chillers , four in all running on four different setups. All that is without the idea of 400 watt MH.

We both seen many a things in this hobby, but were neither that old even you being 50 is rather young yet, I wish I could turn back the clock some, LOL

Im sure you know Rich (Mr.Firemouth) I left it up to him to what if I use the 175 MH as well. I dealt with much delays in these tanks and if I must for a few extra months, I will and then I wouldn't manage to begin one tank until after around April some time. I kind of wish now that I left a lone the idea of the 150 and simply stayed with the two large reef tanks I been having. To late as they say to cry over spilled milk and you can see why I thought to use the 175 watt MH on either the 150 or 180. It would also give me room for corals i couldn't be able to keep under stronger lighting.

So that was my idea in this mess, and now all im trying to do is get this on track and begin to do what you and others assisted me with to have some ideal lighting systems>

Any decisions for the 240 will have to wait, I now two other tanks to begin my goal with and if I can use the 175 on the 180 because its a depth of 24", I would then start with that tank. And later 250 or better will go on the 150, but that decision would then be at a later date after the near complete stocking of the 180, or 150 for that matter.

Thank you and do tell on the 175 of your best opinion on it

Buddy

 

[OldManOfTheSea]

Kevin and roscoe, This was a response form Rich and is what I will do;

Buddy,

I did PAR tests with different lights on other tanks.
The 150w lights are an easy 150 PAR lower than a 250w lamp.
So, 250w lamps are the most versatile for a variety of corals.

Now, growth rates are another issue. For fast growth without regard to specific color, 6500K lamps at 400w grow best.

For slower growth and nice display colors, 250w lamps at 14000k work well IMO.

As far as the 175w are concerned. Use them if you have them. They will work in the 150g but will have lower PAR, so not as much growth would be seen by the 250w or 400w. No problems really.

Let us know when these are all up and running and show some pics too, then just take your time stocking and all should be fine.
Rich

This is the same post response I giving to Rich:

Rich, sometimes i tend to miss something to one in what they meant from all of what they had said, i readied your views in my situation again and understand you better that to go a head with the 150 with the 175 watt MH. This my friend is what I will do now being from your point of view to most to what im looking to do. And yes, this 150 will be somewhat differ from many of the corals that will be kept in either the 180 or 240. It was just before, i figured or rather thought that being the 180 is only 24" deep tank that I would do that tank with the 175 MH.

I also understood from another, Kevin who saying in my idea of adding a fifth 175 watt MH bulb will add nothing much to the WPG. I will post this to Kevin in the other forum as well so that he could see this and know what decisions has been made.

Also, I some news on about that possible Feb Disney World trip, its off> Bad news for the kiddies for the problem is for one thing, their mother is very sick and is too weak most the time to do anything and being that as it may be, that I when we go on that trip will need the rental of a wheel chair to get around, we not need two of us in that way when we will have four kids to tend too.

So now I can as well look a head and get the 40 gal QT rebuild over and see what it would cost to have ready for both, coral and fish. Im sorry Rich that sometimes I seem to miss a point or two here and there and its not because im only looking to do things my way, its nothing like that. If I can as well, I might try this, add the calcium reactor I now have on the 240 with the CO2 that is on the 180 so that I can be free to rebuild over the 40 gal breeder QT.

I will begin to look to when i could get the 40 done over as soon as the X-mas shopping is done and just prior to it I need to put in a minimum delivery on propane for heating, I figure to get around $600 worth. The property tax check i just sent out to pay, that was exactly $1,405.70. Lucky for me that I live in the boom docks somewhere, LOL

Buddy Thank you both for your assistance in this

 

[kevinpo]

George (GEO) makes a excellent product which I can recommend.

I'm glad to hear you have come to a decision on the lighting

Regards,
Kevin

 

[OldManOfTheSea]

Kevin, im wondering somewhat about the deltec products, for the more threads I read in RC in the DeltecUSA forum with many a problems some seem to have. Even the larger skimmer that I would need to get for the 240 gal tank once its rebuild, you know? The $1,851 skimmer. Perhaps by the time I get to that, there should be newer models in equipment. Of course, each piece of equipment could have its shares of problems.

Buddy