Jiddy Needs Help, goto Chat!

[NaH2O]

The only thing that works for ich 100% is copper and QUARENTING!. Dropping the salinity is not absolutely effective and it is dangerous to the fish. Anything below 1.017 specific gravity is pressing your luck. I recommended it and they brought it down to 1.010 and the only thing that lived was a spine cheek and he developed spots when the salinity was brought up (slowly) a month later.

That is not true. Fish are less stressed at hyposalinity conditions as they don't have to work so hard at osmoregulation. Copper is more stressful to the fish than hyposalinity:

Copper suppresses immune function and is highly stressful to fish. Copper is also toxic to fish, but to a lesser degree than with invertebrates. Administering a dose that is too high may kill the fish being treated. If the copper level is not high enough then the treatment will be ineffective. This necessitates testing the copper level twice a day and making adjustments as needed.

From an article I posted a link to on post #20.


Here's some info from Reducing Losses Associated with Transport and Handling in Marine Teleost Fish

Significant portions of post shipment losses are due to osmoregulatory dysfunction and stress-mediated diseases occurring within the first week after transport (Johnson & Metcalf, 1982. Carmicheal et. al, 1984). Stress in fish causes osmoregulatory dysfunction (Harrell & Moline, 1992. Weirich et. al, 1992). This can lead to mortalities (Tomasso et. al, 1980). Reducing the gradient (difference in salinity) between the internal fluids of fish and the surrounding ambient water alleviates water and ion disturbance ((Wedemeyer, 1996). Manipulating the salinity of the transport water upward for freshwater fish and conversely downward for saltwater fish is effective for controlling osmoregulatory disturbances and reducing losses (Carneiro &Urbinati, 2001). Fish held in water that is close to isotonic (the salinity of the surrounding ambient water is close to the internal fluids of the fish) have increased stress resistance (Lim et. al, 2000). These fish also display a significantly lower mortality rate at 7 days post shipment.

Here is another article: Quarantine of Marine Fish (Teleost) Using Hyposalinity

The other advantage that is of great interest with hyposalinity, is the reduction of osmotic stress on fish with abrasions or lesions. In theory, the reduction of the osmolar gradient between the internal tissues and the surrounding environment would be beneficial to injured mucus and epidermal tissue. This reduction in the osmolar gradient, in theory, greatly reduces the loss of water from the fish to the surrounding environment. The ability to maintain hydration in an injured marine fish too small to administer fluids could prove very beneficial. Many more studies, which are ongoing at this time, and sample collections remain to prove this theorized aspect of low salinity.

That article advocating slowly dropping down to 11 PPT.

A method that I am interested in but have not had a chance to try is moving the fish every two days for a week to a clean sterile container. That way the trophonts can drop off and not have a chance to reinfest the host(s).

This was also discussed in an article linked earlier. Every 3 days for a total of 4 transfers is what is recommended.

 

[aquariumdebacle]

Yep, read 'em all and the fish still died, I recomend quarentine above all. That way you can deal with the situation before it becomes a problem

 

[Jiddy]

My Hippo is eating piggishly *my skimmer is also happy, lol* and the spots have seem to receded, the cleaner shrimp set up his station, the YT got a cleaning, lol. And the Hippo seems happy as well

 

[Krish]

My Hippo is eating piggishly *my skimmer is also happy, lol* and the spots have seem to receded, the cleaner shrimp set up his station, the YT got a cleaning, lol. And the Hippo seems happy as well

That sounds good Jiddy! Glad to hear that

 

[spongebob lover]

way to go Jiddy !!!
i'm really happy to hear your fishes are doing good dood

 

[My2heartboys]

Anne - inverts do not get infected with ich, however, they may be carrying part of the life cycle (tomonts or cysts). BUT, the parasite needs fish to complete its life cycle, so if the tank was without fish for the entire period, then eventually the inverts would no longer be carrying that stage of the parasite. So, the life cycle will be interrupted. Make sense? It is a good idea to QT everything when you get it, and that is a part of the reason. You could theoretically introduce some tomonts or cysts without QT, if the stock has come from a place where inverts are on the same system with infected fish. Here is a quote (or two) from the first article:

I am working on getting the qt up and going and I also bought some bio-coat to put in the water after it is filled. Should that help as well???

Anne

 

[My2heartboys]

I am working on getting the qt up and going and I also bought some bio-coat to put in the water after it is filled. Should that help as well???

Anne

_________________________________________________________________

Nikki,

Would using Bio Coat by Marineland Labs be OK? It says it will boost the immune system with something called Bio-Gard and help reduce environmental stresses on the fish.

Anne

 

[wrightme43]

It probley wont hurt but most products dont even come near to doing what the people who are paid to advertise it claim they will. The most effective treatment for any disease is excellent water quality and excellent food in a low stress enviorment.

 

[steve-s]

For parasites your right about slime coat additives but for wound management, there are two products that work well. Kents Pro Tech Coat Marine and Seachem's Stress guard can aid fish is self healing. Works even better in hypo related conditions. wink wink nudge nudge...

Cheers
Steve

 

[My2heartboys]

For parasites your right about slime coat additives but for wound management, there are two products that work well. Kents Pro Tech Coat Marine and Seachem's Stress guard can aid fish is self healing. Works even better in hypo related conditions. wink wink nudge nudge...

Cheers
Steve

Thanks, steve. Those are gonna have to wait till some more money comes in.

Anne

 

[My2heartboys]

It probley wont hurt but most products dont even come near to doing what the people who are paid to advertise it claim they will. The most effective treatment for any disease is excellent water quality and excellent food in a low stress enviorment.

Thanks Nikki, I had only meant it as a little added insurance and not to take the place of those things.

Here's what I have

Blenny-scooter
Blenny-bi-color
Damsel-blue

10 Gallon clear aquarium
1 lg plastic jar
1 med. glass jar
1 sm glass jar-these are so that the fish can have some place to swim in and out of

pH 8.2
SG 1.021--this is slightly lower than what they are used to. I keep the main tank at 1.025

Nutra Fin max Spirulina algae flake food
Omega one natural protein formula (Omega Sea)
Kent garlic extreme

I do have some mysis shrimp in my freezer.

I also have some Pura Complete filtration media that can be added in a bag to the penguin-if that is ok.

Where do I go from here?

Anne

 

[NaH2O]

Thanks Nikki, I had only meant it as a little added insurance and not to take the place of those things.

You're welcome....(pssst - Wrightme43 posted that) .

Anne - do you have a refractometer? Read through this thread, if you haven't yet. There is some good info in there on what to expect. You will have to monitor your pH as the salinity gets lower. You'll want your salinity to get down to around 14ppt, which converts to 1.011 (1.012 is approaching the high end of salinity recommendation for this treatment of 16ppt...if you go over that, then the treatment won't be effective from the information I've read). You can see why a refractometer is important. If you don't have a refractometer, then take a sample into the LFS to get tested and compare it to your hydrometer, or see if anyone can loan you a refractometer. Fish Moving Time Please!

Hope this helps, and please post your experiences.

 

[My2heartboys]

You're welcome....(pssst - Wrightme43 posted that) .

Anne - do you have a refractometer? Read through this thread, if you haven't yet. There is some good info in there on what to expect. You will have to monitor your pH as the salinity gets lower. You'll want your salinity to get down to around 14ppt, which converts to 1.011 (1.012 is approaching the high end of salinity recommendation for this treatment of 16ppt...if you go over that, then the treatment won't be effective from the information I've read). You can see why a refractometer is important. If you don't have a refractometer, then take a sample into the LFS to get tested and compare it to your hydrometer, or see if anyone can loan you a refractometer. Fish Moving Time Please!

Hope this helps, and please post your experiences.

No, I don't have a refractometer and I don't think the LFS that I usually deal with has one either. They are strong proponents of keeping it simple and I don't think that piece of their equipment fits into their plans. On top of that I am not sure that I could afford it. Not sure if you remember, but I have two special needs kids and that is why I am doing this tank.

At this point I don't plan on lowering the salinity until either later today or tomorrow when I will be home most of the day. Bi color blenny is still a little stressed because of the move and all of the jars are clear for easier observation during qt. I will also add a media bag of pura complete as it will help keep the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates down.

Anne

 

[My2heartboys]

Thanks, we found the ick on our scooter blenny--still unsure about the bi-color blenny as he is still quite the scardy fishy. Will post complete update tomorrow.

Anne

 

[steve-s]

If you plan on using a hydrometer, please be sure to target 1.009 SG to be on the safe side. It is a tad lower than when using a refractometer but a much better buffer zone for read errors hydrometers are notorious for.

You will also need to be sure all the fish are treated and the display tank fallowed (6-8 weeks) for this to be successful. Any fish that remain in the display tank potentially become a source for the parasite to complete it's life cycle. Just because you do not notice any spots on the fish does not mean this process is not occuring.

Cheers
Steve

 

[My2heartboys]

If you plan on using a hydrometer, please be sure to target 1.009 SG to be on the safe side. It is a tad lower than when using a refractometer but a much better buffer zone for read errors hydrometers are notorious for.

You will also need to be sure all the fish are treated and the display tank fallowed (6-8 weeks) for this to be successful. Any fish that remain in the display tank potentially become a source for the parasite to complete it's life cycle. Just because you do not notice any spots on the fish does not mean this process is not occuring.

Cheers
Steve

At this point I only have 3 fish and all three of them are in qt and will remain there until I am sure that none of them have spots.

Anne