Just got a cool new toy!

[wrightme43]

Wow, didnt mean to start anything. Sorry all. I enjoy guns and shooting responsibly, I understand that others may not. It is thier choice just as it is mine. I know for me when I go off and say mean things I always feel worse about it than those I tried to hurt, then I just have to go to them and make amends for my wrong actions. What you do SWT is up to you, if you can find it in yourself, my advice would be to apolgize to Don, he is a good man and will I am sure accept. I hope you enjoy shooting safely and enjoy your reeftank as well. Steve

 

[jasontatro]

Well, it's pretty well agreed upon by most who have studied the Constitution, that the Second Amendment is the most poorly written of all of them. The fact that it is the only amendment written with a preamble has left it wide open for much debate and interpretation. I share the opiniion of many, that the amendment only gives individuals the right to bear arms as part of a regulated militia. I do not believe that the framers of the Constitution intended for every American to be running around with firearms.

So, that is why I said "one of the most misunderstood parts of the Constitution." I know many won't agree with me, and I'm fine with that.

 

[wrightme43]

I respect your opinon on the subject
I feel diferently for this reason the framers of our constition knew that power corrupts and aslo knew that a armed society was able to keep a government in check. I believe we are allowed to defend our homes and families from chaos and destruction. I believe it is my responsibility to do so. Thank you for sharing how you feel Jason. Steve

 

[mattseattle]

I share a similiar view.....thanks for explaining your comment.

 

[jasontatro]

I respect others opinions on the issue as well. I think it is more appropriate to say that the Supreme Court gives Americans the right to bear arms rather than the Constitution.

 

[Maxx]

Jason,
One can sucessfully argue that the 2nd amendment of the Constitution is the right that actually guarantees all the other rights listed in the Constitution. Without the 2nd amendment, the government can completely disregard what ever it pleases and enact/enforce whatever it decides.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Well, it's pretty well agreed upon by most who have studied the Constitution, that the Second Amendment is the most poorly written of all of them.

Agreed by whom? I'm seeking names and organizations here. Another curious observation: The second amendment is the subject of great debate and is often seen as you put it " the most poorly written of all of them", yet the other amendments are regarded as well written intelligent living documents. So what happened here? Did the same amazingly forward thinking fathers of our nations get struck by a sudden yet brief case of idiocy enmasse?

I do not believe that the framers of the Constitution intended for every American to be running around with firearms.

Again, If they were so clear elswhere in the Constitution, why were they so vague here? There are requirements for owning a firearm in the USA. Research them. Its not as easy to buy a gun (legally) as Michael Moore would have you believe. Its old but true, "If guns are outlawed, then only Outlaws will have guns". The end result of the majority of the gun control laws on the books today has been to make it harder , (if not impossible) for law abiding citizens to be able to protect themselves from those who would hurt them.
I agree with you that not every American should have a firearm, however, I dont feel that firearms should be banned in the USA. Every single nation that has banned firarms has seen violent crime increase dramatically. The UK has gone up approximately 300%. Australia has gone up approximately 100%. I'm a Police Officer, and we get CONSTANT updates on worldwide crime statistics that we find worth knowing, or related to specific areas of interest...such as shootings, violent crimes, (rape, assaults, home invasions, murder, active shooters etc) Especially in this era of terrorism. The simple fact of the matter is this, there arent enough police in the world to be proactive towards crime. We are generally reactive. My department is very good and we have fantastic response times to crime scenes, but 2 minutes can be a long time in a bad situation.

Nick

 

[wrightme43]

Thanks Maxx, I have to toss my hat in with you. Very well written. Steve

 

[DonW]

SWT,
Dont get me wrong. Going shooting with my dad was a great expeience. Buying a new gun is a fun experience. It just should not be advertised on the internet. My guess is that your father would agree. I'm a firm believer that if you intend to own a weapon you should educate your kids.
A WA state hunters safty course does not make you experienced. Understanding your lack of experience is far more mature and valuable.
The devistation caused by a tiny .223 or even a big .762 is something that most will never understand.
Ejoy your time with your dad. Learn to shoot.

Be safe
Don

 

[reedman]

It's not the people that are responsible gun owners that scare people. It's the punks who break into a house, steal the gun and "play" with it that scare the crap out of me. I believe in being able to go to a gun range, pull your gun out of a lockbox (like a safe deposit box at a bank) and skoot all you want. I believe that if you are hunting you have no need (unless you are really a bad shot) for a handgun. I don't think guns should be banned, but I do look at people very differently in todays society than 15 years ago. I actually believe I can get shot for cutting someone off in traffic or taking a parking space at the mall that someone else wanted...why...because it happens. A stressed out society and easily concealed guns without a controlled environment is just plain scary to me. I could go to a store today, buy a handgun (wait a wait period if we even have one) and be on the streets legally walking around with a weapon that doesn't have any room for error. If you have a knife and stab someone in a rage, you probably won't kill them (might, but probably not). With a gun it's not that hard to accidentally or intentionally kill someone.

My bottom line is that the NRA on one side and the opposing extremists that want take away all guns period have made this a reall mess. There is some middle ground area that would allow people to own and shoot all types of guns.

Why do I even enter into these topics...they are sooooo contriversial and it's very hard to put it into words. I hope it came out right.

 

[SaltwaterTeen]

K guys, sorry. Especially you don, I didnt mean to make ur feelings hurt, I thought you were saying that I am a "Bad Irresponsible Kid, and you hate me" Reedman, I DO NOT play with guns at nowhere other than a range. I sometimes clean my shot gun, but i'm not playing with it. And yes, I do worry about other people carrying firearms, I feel unsafe that they totally lose it and go off on me with their gun. Shooting a pistol at the range is kinda adrenalizing (not meaning that for shooting someone) and it also helps my aim.

 

[MikeS]

Now, that's funny. One of the most misunderstood parts of the Constitution.

An armed civilian is a citizen...
An unarmed one is a subject....

MikeS

 

[wrightme43]

Thanks Mike, very good way to put what I believe as well. Is that a quote from Robert A. Hienlien? I dont remember. Steve

 

[snobanker]

I have many guns, (handguns, rifles, shotguns) I carry one everyday in my job and just because I can when not at work. All three of my kids shoot them and know how to safely. It's up to each of us who chose to be gun owners to be responsible and educate. My kids have no interest in "playing" with guns because they know they can go with me to the range and "bust caps" anytime the ask. By the way in all my years in the military and law enforcement I've never seen a gun fire, shoot, wound, kill, injure, or in any other way shape or form do anything on it's own....there is usually an idiot attached to the other end....but it ain't the gun. Those same fools own knives, clubs and cars.

 

[MikeS]

I can't remember where I heard that exactly....

Living in Wyoming, I love to hunt and I'm a gun owner, so I do have a biased point of view when it comes to guns. Don't get me wrong...I'm no militant gun nut, nor do I believe that everybody should be able to have unlimited access to guns.

I do however believe that mature, responsible individuals should be able to enjoy, if they chose to do so, firearms for hunting, recreation, and personal defense with minimal interference from the government. Should there be restriction on who can own guns? Absolutely....gun ownership should be denied to felons, mental paitents, and in most cases, minors. Are more gun control laws the answer? IMHO, no....many gun laws simply hinder the honest sportsman. Face it, if a criminal wants a gun, he'll get one. IMO there needs to be stiffer penelties for crimes commited with a gun instead of more gun control laws.

In the case of minors...I belive that the current restrictions are well founded (ie no rifles/shotguns under 19 and no handguns under 21) and I have no problems with them. Safe and responsible gun ownership and usage begins with the adults in the home, and I beileve these restrictions help that. If your children are mature enough to use firearms for hunting and recreation, then by all means allow them to (if that is your wish....obviously not applicable to all families) , but only under close adult supervision and only after they have demonstrated the ability to handle these items safely and in a responsible fashion.

JMHO...

MikeS

 

[Angelscrx]

I have many guns, (handguns, rifles, shotguns) I carry one everyday in my job and just because I can when not at work. All three of my kids shoot them and know how to safely. It's up to each of us who chose to be gun owners to be responsible and educate. My kids have no interest in "playing" with guns because they know they can go with me to the range and "bust caps" anytime the ask. By the way in all my years in the military and law enforcement I've never seen a gun fire, shoot, wound, kill, injure, or in any other way shape or form do anything on it's own....there is usually an idiot attached to the other end....but it ain't the gun. Those same fools own knives, clubs and cars.

And yet you put a squirrel behind a gun! Yeah you are a responsible American! :lol:

 

[Maxx]

Squirrels cannot be trusted.

Be afraid, be very afraid. Lord only knows how this would have turned out if the Squirrel was armed.

Lest anyone think I am making this up, here is another example of how evil squirrels can be.

Nick

 

[wrightme43]

Ok, now that is funny. ROTFLMAO. Steve

 

[reedman]

Face it, if a criminal wants a gun, he'll get one. IMO there needs to be stiffer penelties for crimes commited with a gun instead of more gun control laws.

This is the best statement I have seen yet. I wholeheartedly agree with this. Furthermore, I don't believe in disarming America. The only issue I have is with (what I see as) the distortion of the second amendment. I agree that our forefathers wanted people to have the right to own and shoot guns, but I doubt they ever thought we'd have guns that are fully automatic and able to fire off many many rounds in a very short period of time. Just my opinion, but if we could bring the drafting members back today, I think they might put a few more words in there.

That said, I remember fondly the days of summer camp getting my NRA certs and practicing constantly without getting tired of the sport. I have many friends who hunt and love it. I come from a military family and believe that my relatives and many others have died to preserve this and other rights. I just hope the responsible gun owning population can make a clear case for retaining the right as we go forward in time. The media paints an ugly picture and the NRA really doesn't help the cause with their blanket statements that we should be allowed to own any gun ever made (modified or not...for sport or not...anything).

The statement that people kill, not guns, is a true enough statement, but I think anyone can see how much easier it is to kill with an uzy (sp.) than a knife.

Self defense is another very contriversial arguement. There are many cases where the person who planned to protect themselves was killed with their own gun. Others who were responsible and locked up the gun and ammo seperately couldn't get the two together before the intruder (with the stolen gun) killed them. For some it works out.

I like single shot guns. I like semi-automatic weapons for our police. I don't like fully automatic weapons for anyone outside of the military. I think if someone wants to shoot one of these (for the rush or whatever reason), that's cool, but it needs to be done at the range (not out on a country road or out in the woods or at a deer). Bottom line, these are MY feelings and the same constitution protects my right to express them. It does not give me the right to take away another persons gun. Keep the people educated and be responsible. This should ensure the next generation retains the same rights.

 

[wrightme43]

All, I can really say is I love America. Most countries in the world we would all be locked up or killed for having a opinion and expressing it. I have to agree that private citizens don't "need" fully auto weapons. The only problem I have with that, is most private citizens don't have or want fully auto weapons. Most of the ones that do, have not bought them legally, are involved in drug dealing, or organised crime. I know that some people pay to have the fed. license for automatic firearms. These people shoot them on ranges and such. Not at deer or in the back yard. We (as a country) need to punish severely crimalnals with guns, not try to keep those of us who have the good sense not to behave like idiots with them. Just my opinions Steve

 

[mojoreef]

Hey folks I want to commend everyone on here for keeping this thread so civil on what is a normally a hot topic. Thank you. In the same breathe I must say this is one of those topics that I don't really like to see on the off topic forum or on any forum on RF. As with politics, religon and so on they can be very passionate and can turn normal friends into people who cant stand each other. I have let the thread run its coarse and I believe good points have been made for both sides of the topic. All involved have shown very well how to do it civilly and I again thank you for it. But for me its a open door where at anytime someone can join in and send it down a road I would prefer not to travel.

This is a tough call to close the thread as everyone has been so great with it, I hope all can understand my reasoning. If anyone has a problem with what I have done please feel free to pm any time

thanks again

Mike