Kalk and Vinegar? Better?

[ronj]

would it be better to add vinegar to my Kalk solution to help more of it dissolve??? it seems like a waste not to....if i should add it, how much? currently, i use about 7-8 tsp of Kalk per 5g

 

[MikeS]

I played around with the vinager/kalk mix a few years ago...the increase in Ca and alk is not that great, and vinager is pretty good bacteria fuel as I discovered...IMO not worth it. At 5 gal, you can mix 10 tsp of kalk in there for maximum Ca levels. Kalk is pretty cheap, I wouldn't worry about it not all disolving. The grade of kalk you are using makes a difference as well...I have noticed a lot less slurry when using higher end kalk mixes like Werners or SeaChem compared to store-bought pickling lime...

MikeS

 

[ronj]

i am finishing up some Mrs wages that i bought a while back...i just bought 10lbs of it from Two Part Solution..it is supposed to be better quality

 

[Brenden]

I alway dose vinegar in my kalk. How much just depends on how much CA your tank is using.

 

[ronj]

i meant, how much vinegar would i need to add to help the Kalk dissolve more?

 

[charlesr1958]

If you feel that vinegar use would be of help in dissolving your "kalk", I would go with the low end of the vinegar amounts as there is a good reason to be concerned with bacterial levels. I have used it myself, but as soon as I discovered the possible dangers, I cut down to 5ml per teaspoon, and lately, have not used vinegar at all. Then again, I only have to use a calcium additive when the weather prevents me from doing water changes.

Chuck

 

[sunny_mittu]

what is kalk actully

 

[Herefishyfishy]

ground limestone

 

[DonW]

5ml if vinegar to 1tsp of kalk is not going to do much of anything really is just a waste of 5ml of vinegar. The dose is subtantially higher closer to 45ml to 1 tsp of kalkwasser.
The main reason for adding vinegar to kalk is so you can add more kalk to the tank without spiking the ph. Vinegar will reduce the ph of limewater thus allowing you to use more. If your already at full strenght 2tsp per gallon for all your top off with no ph spikes then vinegar is unnecessary.

Don

 

[reverendmaynard]

If the goal is to dissolve more kalk in a given volume of water, the dose should be 15ml per tsp of kalk. This will provide enough CO2 via the vinegar to convert all of the hydroxide in the lime into bicarbonate.

Using that dose, you should now be able to dissolve up to 3 tsp of solid kalk (with 45ml of vinegar) per gallon of water as well as cut down somewhat on the PH swings associated with dosing it.

However, you should have no trouble getting 8tsp to dissolve in 5 gallons of water without any vinegar. Any solids you see are likely impurities that have precipitated out.

Here's a good article...
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php#6

 

[charlesr1958]

Well, 5ml works for me for what I want it to do, and that is simply to dissolve the powder more easily and negate a bit of the co2 draw. 45ml of vinegar would be overkill since I know 5ml completely dissolves a teaspoon. This article should be of help. But do keep in mind, when adding a carbon source such as vinegar, it can be overdone and possibly risk an overabundance of coral's bacterial levels.

http://www.reefscapes.net/articles/breefcase/kalkwasser.html

Chuck

 

[DonW]

If the goal is to dissolve more kalk in a given volume of water, the dose should be 15ml per tsp of kalk.
, you should have no trouble getting 8tsp to dissolve in 5 gallons of water without any vinegar. Any solids you see are likely impurities that have precipitated out.

If you actually do some physical testing youll find it takes much more vinegar to disolve enough extra kalk to get any real results. 15ml per tsp dose NOT do much at all and is not worth the extra carbon source. Thus one reason we use calcium reactors. Try it, test the mixture with different vinegar values, youll find the added ca concentration is very minimal at 15ml per tsp.

Don

 

[reverendmaynard]

Perhaps you're right. I don't really care enough to do that testing, as I have no trouble meeting my demands with less than saturated limewater.

However, since 2 tsp should dissolve into a gallon of water with no help from vinegar, I'm having a hard time believing that 3tsp won't dissolve with 45ml of vinegar in there. JMO. (Well, not really just mine, as I feel RH-F is about as credible a source as you'll find in this area.)

 

[DonW]

Well, 5ml works for me for what I want it to do, and that is simply to dissolve the powder more easily and negate a bit of the co2 draw. 45ml of vinegar would be overkill since I know 5ml completely dissolves a teaspoon. This article should be of help. But do keep in mind, when adding a carbon source such as vinegar, it can be overdone and possibly risk an overabundance of coral's bacterial levels.

http://www.reefscapes.net/articles/breefcase/kalkwasser.html

Chuck

I havent seen the article you linked thanks. Its states 5ml per qt min. with 1 tsp is a good starting point. So 4 qt = 1 gallon. Fully strength is 2 tsp. That works out to 40ml as a good stated starting point with the standard 2tsp per gallon. Bump that up to 45 and you can dissolve even more kalk.

Don

 

[DonW]

Perhaps you're right. I don't really care enough to do that testing, as I have no trouble meeting my demands with less than saturated limewater.

However, since 2 tsp should dissolve into a gallon of water with no help from vinegar, I'm having a hard time believing that 3tsp won't dissolve with 45ml of vinegar in there. JMO. (Well, not really just mine, as I feel RH-F is about as credible a source as you'll find in this area.)

Randy's article dose not state 3 tsp will dissolve. If it does I sure didnt see it. It says 45ml is a good starting point.

Don

 

[reverendmaynard]

Randy's article dose not state 3 tsp will dissolve. If it does I sure didnt see it. It says 45ml is a good starting point.

Don

Maybe you're right, but why would he recommend a starting point that isn't likely to dissolve the extra kalk?

 

[DonW]

Maybe you're right, but why would he recommend a starting point that isn't likely to dissolve the extra kalk?

Its a rough balance and a good starting point for those that want to start using vinegar. If you start low it gives the bacteria time to stabilize. Vinegar additions are some thing that should be done slowly.
The reality is that plain rodi water will dissolve appx 2 tsp per gallon as is. Using less than two tsp per gallon with vinegar is really only reducing the ph and adding a carbon source. If thats what your after great.
If you want to get more out of kalk because your tank demands are more than the 2 tsp per gallon can supply. Adding 45ml per gallon is a safe place to start and slowy bring the vinegar concentration up. As you bring the concentration up you will see that the can stuff 3 tsp per gallon.
There is no hard fast rule as to how much kalk and vinegar should be used. There are more factors involved, if your not willing to test to see the results your never going to know the results your actually getting. Judging based on the sludge in the bottom of the bucket is meaningless unless of course your using a good lab grade product.
If you try it with a product like Warner Marine Calcium Oxide you can actually see the results your getting just by looking at the bottom of the bucket. At 45 ml per tsp in a tighly covered container you will see almost no sludge. Anything less than that you'll see more sludge. I personally would want that much vinegar going into my tank.

Don

 

[captstinky]

Could you elaborate on "the bacteria?"

I'm assuming you mean the stuff we wish to have in the tank, in order to process fish/coral waste in the whole nitrogen cycle?