KH question

[ac7av]

I have an order of fish coming. Tuesday I get to pick them up at the local fish store to start populating my aquarium after getting it restarted this last summer. I currently have 14 little fish and a few crabs and shrimp and a mushroom, star polyps, a few small button polyps and a small yellow leather (I think that’s what it is) anyway I did a full run of the tests that I have on the water to see if I need to make any last minute changes and this it what I found.

Temp 79
Calcium 460
KH 250
Phosphate 0.0 – 0.25
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
PH 8.2
Gravity 1.020

My question is in regards to the KH. Is this too high for a fish only with live rock tank? It indicates in the instructions of the test kit that 140-200 is normal for Marine fish and invertebrates. Is this an important range to be with in or is 250 okay or should I try and get it down before Tuesday?

 

[TotalVapor]

If I am converting it right you are looking at a dKH of 14 which is high. Xenia's and leathers like it on the high side but closer to 10 to 11 dKH (190 to 200 by you testing).

Are you using a cal reactor or anything? You can trying doing a nice size water change I would say 30% and see what happens. After that just let what is in the tank use it until it is down where you want it. This could take several weeks. If you are using a reactor I would shut it off. until you get to the leave you desire.

 

[ac7av]

No cak reactor or anything. I’m not putting anything into the tank other then food and water. I’m not real familiar with the hardness testing cause it’s a bit subjective on the exact dosage in the kit to the color of the liquid. I’m sure its at least 12 but not more then 15dkh I’m going to mix up a small amount of water and see what it is to start with according to my testing. As far as the amounts go I’m not really concerned about corals, I am interested if this is a concern for the fish. I know that the website has lots of information on it in regards to testing but I am so internet stupid I can never find what I’m looking for using the search function on the site even when I know exactly what I’m looking for. If I cant find it just flipping pages I just cant seem to find it. Ill let you know what the test comes out to with the fresh mixed up batch.

 

[ac7av]

Okay
I re-tested the tank and test some new water I mixed up yesterday, this morning.
The tank test at 13 - 14, total color change happens in this point.
The new water is at 19-20
What do you think about that?

 

[returnofsid]

Are your numbers in DkH? Alk is measured 3 different ways, thought the most common are DkH and Meq/l. It seems you're measuring the 3rd way, which some "all in one" test kits do. These test kits typically aren't that accurate. Get yourself some Salifert or Elos test kits.

I'd be shooting for the following:

Calcium 380-420
Alk 9-11 dkh
Mg. 3X your calcium

 

[ac7av]

I’m sorry I forgot to say what test kit I am using.
All the test kits I used for the numbers are API aquarium pharmaceuticals test kits.
I’m not sure what you mean by all in one kit, I think this kit only test one thing.
On the conversion chart for KH it list the results in dKH, and ppm KH
Since the results are just over the charts conversion I am guessing a bit on the ppm KH of 240.
The dKH is what I listed in the post. Is this not a good reading (as in doesn’t make any sense)? I may just not understand the test results but I think it is correct. Is the Mg testing important for a FOWLR tank? I would need to get one. Like I said I’m not really concerned about keeping a lot of coral just the fish happy in this tank.

 

[tat2z_21]

Hey I have an elos test kit if you want to borrow it. Let me know.

 

[tat2z_21]

Besides I am not sure how accurate this is but because out where you live, I believe it is a community well. With that being said isn't true that well water will always be higher on the Carbonate hardness, and lower on the pH.

 

[ac7av]

These kits seem to be highly rated and the people that claim to be experts in aquariums (on line) say the kits are very accurate. I could not find any negative reviews or information about these kits so I have not reason to believe that the are so inaccurate that I can not count on the results. I’ve seen the testing charts posted on this site and its amazing the variance you can get between brands so it leads to the question are any of the consumer grade test kits that most of can afford really accurate? I know that the strip testing kits are a joke and I would not use them. I would not normally even worry about such a thing but I just happened to have the kit so I tested everything because I have some fish coming in to introduce into the tank and wanted to make sure things were where they should. No one has comment about the question I had about the fish being adversely affected with this rating of dKH. I have never had any problem with the PH. I check it every week and only once every few months do I every put in any Reef buffer into the tank. I called up to Island Pet Center and they all say that its not a problem at all. Two of the people that work at the store live in my community and use the well water in their own tanks.

 

[returnofsid]

The problem is, we still don't know if your results are in dKH or PPM. 19-20 PPM would be extremely low, while 19-20dKH is very high. I find it very unusual that your water is testing that low or that high. You want to be shooting for 9-11 dKH. I don't know what the equivalent would be in PPM. Calcium, Alk and Magnesium are all very important in a reef tank, though in a FO tank, none are all that important.

 

[ac7av]

I thought I clarified that already
The test conversion chart reads both.
The results of the test and it was preformed 3 times
13-14 dKH
Or
240 ppm KH

19-20 dKH was tested on the newly mixed up water.
or
380 ppm KH

 

[ac7av]

Okay
Thanks returnofsid
that’s what I wanted to know
If is was important for the fish.
That makes me feel a lot better about it.
Its not that I don’t trust the local fish store but you know, they do have an ulterior motive to sell more stuff.

 

[returnofsid]

I thought you'd clarified it before also. However, I would be highly suspect of the newly mixed up water being 19-20 dkH. That's EXTREMELY high and I can't imagine that being accurate. I'd try testing it with a different test kit and see what results you get.

 

[ac7av]

I know our water is pretty hard in this area.
I had to call our water management company to get the readings to set the water softener in my dishwasher. When I called them a year ago it was 24 grains per gallon (I think this is how they describe it, I had to convert it to grain per liter to set up the salt dispenser in the dishwasher). This is how they test it. I don’t know what that means in dKH but I know its pretty high. The inside of dishwashers and showers and tubs will get a white film on them like chock and is like cement is some places. I will take it in and have them test it at the store and see what they say about it. I will post that information tomorrow.

 

[TotalVapor]

I ran into high Alk and still have it today. My new mixed water reads at 12dKH. I even took it to a couple of shops and they got the same results. By chance are you using Instant Ocean salt with the new purple label?

The only thing I could do was turn off all my reactors (I think you said you did not have any so you good there) and no water changes until it got down to 7 to 8. Once I got it down there I only do a 10% water change (about every two or three weeks.). This will raise it a bit but in two / three weeks it is back down.


With a FOWLR tank you should be fine on this schedule, just got to get it down between 7 and 8. So until then no water changes no reactors, and lots of waiting.

HTH

 

[Boomer]

More than likely it is the tap water you are using that is giving the high levels. An no it is not to high for just fish. However, I would think of getting at least a RO, as you are pusihing the high limit or look for a salt mix that has a lower dKH like Tropic Marin Pro. Reef


ALK is 1 meq / l= 2.8 dKH = 50 ppm CaCO3





1 grain per gallon = 17.1 ppm

However, this unit is all the ions in the water or total hardness and can not be given/used as Alk without further tests.

 

[ac7av]

Okay after all the talk of a RO-DI filter, I went onto eBay and purchased one of the el-cheep-o units that is rated at 50 gallons per day, $59 bucks. I purchased a tester to see how bad my water out of the tap is and to verify that the filter is working normally since it does not have a meter on it. My tap water is running at 364ppm, the water from the refrigerator water dispenser that has a filter on it read at 198ppm, and the tested RO-DI water reads at 000ppm. I purchased off craigslist two 55 gallon blue food grade drums to store the water in and have it running now. I have mixed up a new batch of water using the RO-DI water and this is the test results I have.

I use Kent marine sea salt
Specific gravity 1.022
PH 8.2
Ammonia 0ppm
Phosphate 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 0ppm
dKH 10
calcium 380

Now I was under the impression that because the RO-DI filter removes everything from the water that I would have to add stuff to the water to get the numbers in check but that doesn’t seem to be the case.

 

[Boomer]

That is fine for a FOWLR. However do not add any kind of buffer so that dKH does not get any higher.

removes everything from the water that I would have to add stuff to the water to get the numbers in check but that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Well, it should be the case Allot of this 364 ppm is Calcium and buffer. The buffer gives high DKH. What may have been your issues is that 365 ppm and the salt added was taking Calcium and some buffer out of solution and lowering your values, as seem from the RO/DI salt mix. So they "appear" to be the same. You are getting what you should get now with TMP

 

[ac7av]

Okay
So it sounds like it will all depend on what salt mix I am using or is it something in the water that the meter does not pick up on that is still causing the dkh to be as high as it is?

 

[Boomer]

If your TDS meter reads zero or near to it there is nothing in that water Sometimes when you take high TDS tap water and add salt to it the Calcium and Alk may get to high and this happens;

Ca++ + CO3-- (buffer) ==> CaCO3 solid, in the bottom of the bucket or on the walls of the bucket or the water stays cloudy, especially if you add a bunch of salt at once. This can lower the calcium and dKH of the salt mix, which sees to have been your case with the tap water. And if you add water to the salt it will be even worse. You always add salt to water and NEVER add water to salt.