Learning from experience

[Scooterman]

Yea & then this guy on the Internet used asphalt & bottles etc in his tank over 35 years, so what is a newbie to expect? LOL Ok had to hit that one!
Really I totally agree & actually said the very same thing about new comers learning some then trying to teach other as quickly as they learn, you can't do that, I can't do that. I've had some sort of fish tank about 32 years now, think I was 8 for my first tank, been salty not nearly that long, gave it a try years ago failing badly so I gave it up then started again about 6 years ago, and I still try to read & learn every day as I go, it isn't no exact science & it does change daily & we will never learn it all & the variables are even greater now because of the more options & information available, I just hope that we learn from all this & give some back to our reefs & help preserve more than we loose & hope that happens sooner than later.

 

[Krish]

Paul...Read the description under my Cube's title in my signature. I get my stuff straight from the source (the ocean) and the drive home is but 5-10 minutes. My methods of introducing things are a lot different than the "norm" or what is taught to us because my situation is totally different, so I try to make that point clear. It's a good thing like you guys say...A newbie looking at my tank today empty and full of corals tomorrow may scratch their heads and think it is alright to just "toss in" and I don't want to be held resposible for them thinking that without them knowing the details. If I were getting my stuff from a store, my approach would be totally different. I guess all of us who use this approach have a responsibility to make it a point to explain things, thus the reason for that little note in my signature

 

[shallowreef]

I like the saying at the very bottom of your sig "have you helped a fellow reefer today?"

It reminds me of an add i see in the phone book that says "have you hugged your children today?"

 

[Paul B]

Krish, although I did not put it in my signature (I don't even have a signature) I try to remember to tell people not to try a lot of the things that I do. I do not want people putting asphalt or beer cans in their reefs. I also say that New York sea water works for me. I have many snails, seaweed, worms, pods, mud etc that I collect in my reef. I would not give advice to use that in another tank. It works for me but for some reason my tank does not get diseases, maybe someone would not be as lucky or maybe this stuff is somehow imparting immunity on my animals. I do not have the answer but I do know that the majority of reefers have some sort of problems as shown by this forum. I think the age of the tank has something to do with that but I can't say what. My tank was a disease magnet for the first few years and then all of a sudden something happened and whatever I put in there lives forever. I have not quarintined anything in over 25 years but you should quarintine everything. As I said, when I started I just had to show my fish a picture of another fish and they would get ich. Now I can put disease ridden ich infected fish in there and no other fish would contract it. DON'T DO THIS. I wish I could find out why this happens but with all the stuff I aded over the years I have no Idea. Maybe it's asphalt, or NYC mud. :lol:
Have a great day (and do not do what I do)
Paul

 

[Krish]

LOL! Yeah, you are a bit extreme Paul...You scare me sometimes:lol: J/K Yeah, no need to put it in a signature like me though...That was just my way of not having to always repeat myself. I figure with the amount of posting I do, everyone will have a chance to see it there. Have fun in the harbour! It will soon be winter so you better get it all in while you can

 

[Paul B]

Krish winter is approaching fast. I just came back from crabbing. Got a nice batch of blue claws. I gave some to my fish which they enjoyed, the bubble coral ate a nice claw and of course I will eat the rest.
Paul

 

[Krish]

I guess my winter is like your summer and you can't get me in the water from about late October until about May I hate cold water so I get stuck playing in puddles during those months

 

[Sherman]

Eric Borneman spoke at the Western Marine Conference, here in California last April. His topic was "Passing the Torch." It wasn't said outright, but very clearly implied that his role as "an expert" in this hobby would not last forever. His underlying message was that we couldn't always rely on people like him to give all the answers. He encouraged those who were willing to become "the expert" themselves. There should be a point when one stops soaking in information and begins to re-feed it.

The reason the Internet has made such a huge change is for the communication and community it has enabled. Sure, all sorts of reefers were always experimenting with all sorts of different techniques the whole time. Now, however, we can share that, and learn from each other, instead of duplicating the same project because you didn't realize someone else was doing the same thing. From this very forum, I discovered and now swear by the Air Bubble Filtration method. My own club's home forums have been absolutely invaluable, saving me literally thousands of dollars and saving the lives of countless fish, corals and other livestock. In all actuality, I would never have gotten involved in this hobby were it not for all the information and advice I soaked in before I made my first purchase.

Now back to Borneman's point... with all the advice and information I've read, and with (only) two years experience, there's no reason I can't make my dent in carrying this hobby forward, advancing the understanding of what we do. I want to be able to keep those corals that they say aren't tank-able. Everyone has their "dream fish." Mine is the Moorish Idol, and though you don't know me, Paul, I've been watching your tank and the Idol for a long time now. I just don't want to put a dinner saucer in my tank . So.. in time. As people like Paul help us understand the Moorish Idol a little better, I'll continue to share my experiences so someone else I don't know might learn from them, as well. Heck, just this week, one of our members nuked his tank with a kalk overdose. So what do we do? Sit and cry? No! Document the crap out of that thing. Measure all the water perameters regularly, so we might learn something from it.

Maybe I'm delusional, but I feel a certain... obligation toward making the reefing hobby better. I have a pretty high set of standards that have been the fuel behind a few burned bridges, but I can't lower that standard because someone else has a much more casual approach toward maintaining the lives of captive animals than I do.

Anyway... you've gotten me onto a soapbox. Thanks a lot. Regardless, I've become completely addicted to the hobby, and will continue to make mistakes and share them as I go.

 

[Paul B]

Sherman, I like your enthusiasm (although I probably can't spell it) I also already figured that very few people would want to put a dish in their reef to feed a difficult fish. To tell you the truth I used to remove it if someone came to see the tank, now I don't even see it anymore. It still works well and it's the only way I know of where I can feed this fish three times a day. None of the food is lost but as you are thinking, it is not very appealing.
As you can see the dorsal fin has not regrown but look at how large the fish is compared to his first year. My 6' long reef is much too small for this fish and thats why in my opinion this fin will not regrow. I have removed much rock and coral and I have also neglected some of the corals. The Idol eats so much that the water quality is suffering and I have limited feeding the corals so much that the torch corals shrunk to about half. For some reason the gorgonians are growing like crazy. Most of the time and food is delegated to the Idol. I rarely even feed the other fish because there is a lot left over for them. I do still feed the bluestriped pipe pair fish newborn brine and they are still spawning every few weeks.
As you can see by the picture the dish is completely covered in coraline algae.
My algae trough is also still working very well and it is filled with algae where there is very little in my reef itself. So I guess these two experiments, the dish and trough are a success.
As for Eric, since this hobby is now in it's 37th year I know that many of the members here now are the experts of tomorrow. With all the information out there and advances in lighting, foods etc I can forsee a day when no animals will need to be removed from the sea and we may even start putting the excess back.
I have been researching material for a book that I started almost 40 years ago. It is mostly taken from personal experiences and I am not embarassed to write about my failed experiments and there have been many. As an example I used to inject guppies with cod liver oil then feed them to anglerfish. The anglerfish never lived very long but neither did they when I did not do this. I have also injected corals and anemenies with cod liver oil, that is still ongoing.
I have been lucky to have grown up near the sea and spent my young years in my Father's fish market. Other kids played with toy soldiers, I also had soldiers but I would take a live blue claw crab and let him walk all over them. My Father would also show me how to take apart a fish and remove every bone, then put the fish back together again to sell. I was ten when my Father suddenly died so the knowlege was lost on my young brain but I am sure that had he lived, he would have a dynamite reef tank.
My Father would often also bring home some crab or seahorse that he found alive along with the catch in the Fulton Fish Market in Manhatten, I would put it in the sink until it died, which was not too long since I knew nothing about salt water.
Anyway I know many of the hobbiests here have the passion to continue this hobby forever. I have other hobbies but none I am as passionate as with this one. It will never get boring because it is just too complex.
Have a great day.
Paul

 

[Krish]

Paul...With that plate all encrusted with coraline, you can hardly even tell that it is even a plate. Looks like it belongs there IMO

 

[Paul B]

Krish, thats the plan.