Lethargic Blue Trigger (Odonus Niger)

[Littlefishies]

Hi all, I am currently trigger fish sitting for my partner. I am not an aquarium enthusiast so please forgive my ignorance on the matter. I am also not familiar with posting to forums so I ask for patience if I am in the wrong place.

The fish is a blue trigger fish or odonus niger and sometimes called redtooth trigger as far as I know and I am seriously concerned that he may be sick. He is usually very active and rather aggressive if I may say so but for the last 4 days he stays in his little cave and sort of leans sideways against the rocks. What I mean is that he is definitely upright but almost always leaning against something. If he is not in that position he is facing mouth up towards the top of the tank, usually while hiding behind some rocks. He usually loves to eat and I am feeding him once a day but he doesn't seem to be at all interested in his food. I have called my partner and he told me to go to our local pet store to ask the guys there...well they didn't know... so I came here. In addition to the lethargy he has a single white spot on the top of his head, just in front of his middle back fin (dorsal?), also the first fin (dorsal spine?) is always up now too...stressed maybe?. The spot is white and seems more like an ulcer than a protrusion. It is about 2mm x 2mm in size. There is no rawness or bleeding in the area. He has also what appears to be "ulcers" just above his fins (the ones on the side). They are not white but more of a grey and there are 3 of them (they are not very noticeable). Again no bleeding or rawness. I thought his eyes might be a bit cloudy yesterday but they are fine today. (Its very hard to see him because he has made himself a cave right at the back of the aquarium). He usually does a move around of sand and some of the smaller rocks about once a week but I haven't noticed him doing that lately. My partner told me to look out for "sand like" or "bubble like" spots but I cant get a good look at him to see and I don't want to catch him in the net and scare him. Plus I am a little afraid of him because he bites.

I have tested the water using an API test kit and everything falls in the normal range. I remember nitrates were present about a month ago and my partner was doing water changes to bring them down or something along those lines.

I will try to give some background info on the tank...
I do not know what it is in gallons but it contains only the trigger and a crab, a hermit I think since we sometimes have to buy shells and leave them lying around the tank for him. My partner has mentioned lately that we will soon need a bigger tank for the trigger because he is outgrowing this tank. It is a long tank rather than a deep tank and it has about 10 large pieces of live rock and a few smaller pieces.

I have noticed some tiny white bug like creatures running along the sand and over the rock...they are white and really small...like tiny tiny shrimp in shape. They have only appeared in the last week (to my eyes anyway) and my partner has not yet seen them. He said they may be hitch hiking crustaceans of some sort? Are they parasites? We haven't put anything new in the tank except some sand about 6 months ago.

We really love this fish, his name is Roger. We bought him as novices (I still am) and the guy in the store assured us he would live happily within a community...when we learned that Roger liked the tank to himself we tried to return him but the store guy refused to take him back because he said he was too aggressive...lol... he had obviously been trying to get rid of him. Anyhow we learned to love him and laugh at his tricks and I really hate to think he may be in pain.

I am sorry that that info isn't what it should be but any indication would be great. My partner is home in two weeks so maybe when he gets back he will know what to do but I'm afraid that will be too long. I took a picture and sent it to him and he could see the white spot on the head but nothing else. He didn't know what it is..he is relatively new to saltwater aquariums, we have this one for about a year and he had a tropical one for a few years. I will try to borrow a good camera and hang around the tank until he moves so I can post a decent picture of him. Any help in the mean time would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for your patience.

Here is a picture, its not great but you can see the spots I mentioned...the one in front of the dorsal fin and the one just in front of the side fin. Do his eyes look alright?..I don't think they are cloudy myself.

Thanks again.

 

[user 26995]

Hi Littlefishies.
Our resident expert is Lee Birch. He has his own forum Marine Fish Discussion with Lee Birch under the specialty forums.
I am moving your thread to his forum. He will see it sooner and hopefully be able to assist you.
Hope everything works out.

 

[Littlefishies]

Many thanks Ipisces. I am really worried about this little guy. I feel so useless.

Thanks again.

 

[steven11]

Was the tank moved and is he eatting at all?

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[steven11]

I guess a better question is, has anything in his tank changed recently? If I so much as change the lighting schedule on my tank, my niger will be skiddish for a few days.

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[Littlefishies]

Hi Steven,

No the tank hasn't been moved and he isn't eating a thing. I was just feeding him and leaving the food but my partner said i shouldn't leave bits of food in the tank if he doesn't eat them so I took them out. I thought he might eat them when I'm not around. I have only seen him leave the cave on two occasions in the last 4 days, once when I got up extra early and happened to glance at the tank and another time late at night...no light on in tank on both those occasions.

The lighting schedule is different for sure because we don't keep the same working hours...I turn in on at least 2 hours later. I didn't think of that at all. I hope its that rather than something more sinister.

I should mention that he has gone into little "sulks" before when the tank is cleaned but he usually comes around in an hour or so. The tank was cleaned 5 days ago just before my guy left so I guess he could have really upset Roger somehow?

I just noticed this evening that he has little pieces of what look like dark grey dust on his middle back fin, they seem to be on only one side because I couldn't see them earlier when he was turned the other way. His fin seems to be curling over towards them but it may just look that way because he's leaning against the rocks again. Plus he's right at the bottom so it may be sand.

Many thanks Steve, hopefully it is the light issue...I will try to take another pic of him now and see if the camera makes out those little grey things.

UPDATE: I think the "grey things" are actually bubbles because they disappear every now and then and he has lots of bubbles around his head...I think its because of where he has positioned himself. Wow I am clueless!

 

[steven11]

I would be willing to bet its the lights. I would suggest putting the lights on a timer. Saves you from having to remember to turn them on and off. I think this explains his behavior. My triggers and wrasse put themselves to bed about 15 minutes before the lights go out religiously. They freak out if I change it up on them.

What do you feed him?

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[Littlefishies]

Perhaps thats what has happened...good suggestion about the timer. I will remind him to invest in one for sure.

I am feeding him small little cubes of something...its some sort of seafood.
I gave him a prawn today, my partner gives them to him from time to time, they seem to be his favorite but he didn't go for it so i took it out again after about 30 mins. There is also a bottle of something, but I was told not to use that...think its plankton of some sort.

What do you think Steve. Should I buy him something else?

 

[user 26995]

Many thanks Ipisces. I am really worried about this little guy. I feel so useless.

Thanks again.

Dont feel bad. We all feel that way when our pets get sick.

 

[steven11]

I wouldn't change anything up right now on him. Just try to normalize the lights for him. Timers are pretty cheap. I even have an extra one you can have. Triggers normally only hide when they are either scared or calling it a night. How long have you had him now?

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[steven11]

Never mind, just realized your in Ireland.

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[steven11]

And those little white shrimp like things running around are copepods, not parasites.

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[leebca]

Sorry to hear of Roger's problems. Fish behavior is an entertaining and sometimes frustrating thing. When a fish is ill, their behavior shifts quite a bit, but sometimes subtly noticeable to only the discernible eye. In this case, I'd say the fish is ill and the unusual behavior patterns you see are normal for its current state.

A well-fed healthy fish can go on a fast and still live for a few weeks, but if ill, its reserves of energy (fat) can rapidly be depleted.

The little critters in the tank are okay, they are likely some kind of pods. They are generally a good thing to have around.

Triggerfishes in general can get to the point where they believe the entire tank belongs to them and are not likely to accept 'new' neighbors. I'm sure you've learned this, as I have read. Only other aggressive/assertive fishes will likely get along with them.

Now to the fish. . .The photo doesn't help me much in hoping to provide a good diagnosis. Without a good diagnosis, actions to take are not very reliable in helping the fish. If we agree what you are seeing are 'lesions' then they can be caused by any of a number of parasites, pathogens, and conditions. Can't narrow it down much more than this. If they represent tumors or such, there isn't much to be done but to continue to try to get the fish to eat and when/if it does make sure the diet is the correct one. Not sure what in fact it was eating, so I can't review the nutrition factor.

If they are symptoms of parasites, it is hard to say what they might be.

If they are due to pathogens, such as a bacterial infection, that we can address and do something about, although I'm unsure your knowledge of the hobby can deal with it properly (no offense intended). Also, if they are due to one of the above, it may lead to a secondary bacterial infection. The fish would need to be moved to a hospital tank and then treated with an appropriate antibiotic. Not sure you are able to accomplish this and I'm not sure what fish antibiotics you may have available to you. The treatment cannot be done in the tank the fish is currently in.

I'm afraid, without more to go on, that is about my best recommendation at this point in time. If the above is beyond your ability, as I suspect, you can do one other thing -- a huge (over 80%) water change. Since this is such a large water change, you'd follow the guidelines given in the post: How to Make a Safe Water Change. The water change is not a cure, but it can 'shock' the fish into eating. Then it is up to you to be sure it gets proper nutrition.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

 

[steven11]

Or maybe it just misses its owner. I don't believe that every change in behavior has to do with a disease or parisite. Not always doom and gloom.

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[Littlefishies]

Thank you Lee and Steven for your advice.

The specialist store have agreed to send a member of their staff for a fee (Monday). He will test the water and try to diagnose Roger is there is diagnosis to be made. They will begin a treatment if necessary and tutor me on how to continue it. As Lee pointed out, treatment is limited because I don't have a hospital tank and they were also quick to point that out.

Thank you again for the advice. I will post an update.

Best wishes

 

[Littlefishies]

Correction *if there is a diagnosis to be made

Best wishes

 

[Sasquatch]

aww so sorry about that. the point should be made that you did really well in trying to do the right thing, a lot more than some might for a friends fish, kudo's to you and Im sure your partner will appreciate your efforts.