Lets talk about ~Lighting~

[mojoreef]

Ok let me take a better stab at this.
This is what we know about pigments:
For growth zoox have chlorophyll’s pigment they have strong light absorbing capabilities within the violet/blue area of the light spectrum and can also absorb a significant amount of red light. They also have carotenoid peridinin pigment which absorbs blue light along with some violet and some green. Satisfy this and the coral will grow.

Now for coloring :
>Pocilloporin primarily absorbs green/yellow (550-600 nm) light along with some upper UV-A . it emmits a orange/red
>highly fluorescent pocilloporins primarily absorbs light from 310 to 380 nm (UV-B and UV-A) and then fluoresces this as light from 400 to 470 nm (violet/blue).
>highly fluorescent pocilloporin primarily absorbs light from 380 to 470 nm (UV-A, violet and blue) and fluoresces light from 475 to 520 nm (blue and green).
>third type of highly fluorescent pocilloporin primarily absorbs light from 430 to 490 nm (violet and blue) and fluoresces light from 490 to 540 nm (green/yellow).
>Yellow fluorescing pocilloporin primarily absorbs light from 440 to 500 nm (blue) and fluoresces light from 520 to 620 nm (green, yellow and orange).
>Red/Orange Fluorescing pocilloporin that primarily absorbs light from 500 to 540 nm (green) and fluoresces light with wavelengths that are primarily orange to red.

Ok so now we know what color we put in and what color will results, so lets translate that to bulbs.
here is a 20000K radium wave plot 400 watt.

So looking at that, then translating into what we know. We could assume to get alot of of dark green, blues, some yellows and sme deep reds. But for growth it doesnt have alot of red or green or violet so not alot.
Now lets look at the 10000K ushio 400 watt

so looking at this we see good violet which translates to violet and blues, and strong 500 to 600 so good oranges, reds,greens
ok so heres some more charts you do the math, lol
here are a bunch of 400 watters

and some 250 watt de's

mike

 

[tankgirl]

Hi Mike,
Doesn't a corals ability to control the number of zoox figure into this? I thought that when light intensity was medium-ish, the coral would allow more zoox to exist so it's gets all the sugar (food) it wants? That equates with growth.
But, by limiting the # of zoox, you get less brown (somehow). And by having more intense light for longer periods, fewer zoox produce more? And, better color?

 

[NaH2O]

hehehe...thanks mike....now I need to go and mull over the charts making notes in the margins. Basically, the bulb you choose will dictate the fluorescing colors of your corals. Makes sense, and I believe it had been stated earlier. It is nice to have the charts as reference for the bulbs. I tend to be a visual learner, so they are a big help (depended on the ball and stick models in Chemistry classes at college) lol.

 

[mojoreef]

Hiya TG. good questions

Doesn't a corals ability to control the number of zoox figure into this?I thought that when light intensity was medium-ish, the coral would allow more zoox to exist so it's gets all the sugar (food) it wants? That equates with growth

yes it does. the zoox populations will rise and fall depending on the ammount of light it needs. See in order to get the process started (photosynthisis) the receptors need to be excited. this is done by a simple flash of intence light, now once the process starts the zoox will be able to process the light photons on just the overall average of light for any given day. does that mae sence?

But, by limiting the # of zoox, you get less brown (somehow). And by having more intense light for longer periods, fewer zoox produce more? And, better color?

The zoox are brown in color TG, thy are a mix of yellow and green pigments. In regards to color pigments are the players, not the zoox really. So yes the lesser the zoox would leave more available room for the pigments to form. But the really main thing behind the color of the coral is the color of the light you subject them to.

mike

 

[NaH2O]

All of this spectrum talk reminds me of ROY G. BIV (red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, & violet).

Anyway, I was discussing Japenese Reef Tanks with a friend that explained the philosophy behind them. What does this have to do with a lighting thread? They use different bulbs directed at specific corals to bring out bright colors. Here is a link to what some tanks look like:

Click on the individual pictures to get the full view. In some, you can see how the lighting is directed
http://www.splash-sea.co.jp/tank/index.html

Here are a couple of colorful ones:
http://reefaqua.com/pics/tank/tankmain0205.jpg
http://reefaqua.com/diary/0206/020608-9.jpg

On this link, scroll down to the date 2002.06.05, then click on the thumbnails to see the lighting:
http://reefaqua.com/diary/0206/bldiary0206.html

 

[mattseattle]

nice picture. funny thing i noticed in one of the equipment pictures is that the tank is utilizing kent product's. ewwwwww....

 

[NaH2O]

Is there any information out there that discusses how much of a growth difference there is between the different K temps? If 6500K gives the best growth in comparison to the 10000K and 20000K, then by how much - is it a slight difference or a big difference?

 

[tankgirl]

Hi Mike,
Yeah, the part about the coral allowing more zoox or less depending on lighting makes perfect sense!

I'm not so clear on how less zoox allow more room for pigments, tho'?

But, I'll bet anything it's UV (is that what you mean by color of light?) that matters on color?

The most interesting thing is how you could have two different lighting systems to maximize growth or to maximize color, depending on what your goals are.

Cool pix, Nikki! The thing that throws me is the use of colored lights a lot in the Japanese tanks. Makes it hard to figure out what a coral's color is. Seems artistic, but also, somehow, like cheating?

 

[mojoreef]

Is there any information out there that discusses how much of a growth difference there is between the different K temps? If 6500K gives the best growth in comparison to the 10000K and 20000K, then by how much - is it a slight difference or a big difference?

thats a tough one Nikki. Most of the info is related to personal experences of hobbists. Now remember all corals are not even close to each other when it comes to lighting, food requirements play a big difference in the game when it comes to certain coral types. (the flesh rule is a good one to follow thier) . One thing that does seem to come into play is the intencity of the bulb. the higher the K rating the more the intencity takes a hit. that is why Higher K bulbs should be helped out by some increase in intencity.

Mike

 

[mojoreef]

I'm not so clear on how less zoox allow more room for pigments, tho'?

The concept is that with more zoox, thier color will dominate the tissue and polyps and thier for the overall color will be that of the zoox.

But, I'll bet anything it's UV (is that what you mean by color of light?) that matters on color?

Nope not really. the coral has pigments that utilize a varity of colors (as listed previous) UV is just another color, but it also promotes pigments that the coral has as protectorants. SO the impact will be a little more then most colors.

The most interesting thing is how you could have two different lighting systems to maximize growth or to maximize color, depending on what your goals are.

yes I agree. feeding and coloring are to different animals, although related and crossed they have different requirements.

Mike

 

[tankgirl]

So, Mike - the coral has it's own pigments (besides the pigments in the zoox)?

But, the zoox pigments color the coral if there are lots of them?

Or, are all the pigments in the zoox?

that is why Higher K bulbs should be helped out by some increase in intensity.

Also, when you say intensity, do you mean wattage? So higher K bulbs should be 400 watters?

 

[big t]

By intensity he is talking about par value. Different bulbs have different amount of par. For example a 250W iwasaki 65k has a higher par value then a 250w radium. The light being emitted by the bulb is much more intense

 

[tankgirl]

Hi Tom, Thanks! Yeah, I do understand that wattage isn't a direct correlation to PAR (because different bulbs convert energy to light differently), but, in general, it's a reasonable approximation - at least that's what I understand.
Obviously fluorescent lights don't convert nearly as much energy into heat as MH's do.
PAR is expressed in microeinsteins per second per square meter. (umol/m2/s) but also as watts per square meter per second.

I think bulbs are rated at lumens/watt. Most MHs, I think, run around 80 lumens/watt.

In any event, my understanding is that differences between different bulbs are fairly insignificant and there's a pretty big correlation between wattage and par within a class of bulbs (like MHs, for instance).

 

[mojoreef]

So, Mike - the coral has it's own pigments (besides the pigments in the zoox)?

yes TG the coral has pigments and the zoox have pigments. the dominant pigments in zoox are green and yellow, the combination of the two results in Brown. thier ugly but essential to the operation of the zoox.

Also, when you say intensity, do you mean wattage? So higher K bulbs should be 400 watters?

Well wattage will usually directly relate to more intencity, although in some cases when looking at different bulbs K types that doesnt pertain. Example would be a 250watt 65K blows the doors off a 400watt 20K radium in regards to intencity. In this regards for me I choose to go with the 400 watt when I went radiums. Now on my ushio bulbs at 10K I just went 250watt.


Mike

 

[tankgirl]

So, if you're interested in getting the best possible colors in your acros, you want the highest PAR sustained for the entire photoperiod?

And, that keeps the number of zoox down, so that the corals pigments (not zoox pigments) dominate?

 

[Scooterman]

While on the subject, I've found a few good reads!

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/Tech/intensorama.html

http://www.athiel.com/lib4/par1.htm

http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/i_ashdown_060798.html

http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/d_riddle_042698.html

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/light_intensity.html

http://www.aquabotanic.com/lightcompare.htm

 

[NaH2O]

And, that keeps the number of zoox down, so that the corals pigments (not zoox pigments) dominate?

If this is the case....does this explain why the corals don't grow as quickly as they would under 6500K? There is less zoox, therefore, they aren't getting as much in the way of food from the zoox...but they are getting plenty for the pigments.

 

[mojoreef]

So, if you're interested in getting the best possible colors in your acros, you want the highest PAR sustained for the entire photoperiod?And, that keeps the number of zoox down, so that the corals pigments (not zoox pigments) dominate?

Ok PAr is a measurement of the intencity of the light (basically). If you have alo of of light intencity the coral will not need to employ as many zoox to do the job. See the concept here is that once you see what pigments in the coral require in regards to light waves you can find a bulb that matches the color you want as an end product. You do this by viewing the wave chart for all the bulbs. If you want your corals to have more of a dominat blue flourese you simply look at what pigments flourse the blue tones, find out what color waves they like and then match up the bulb that gives them good intencity in that color. This way you dont need to know the names or the K of the blub you just match up what colors charts fit your bill.
That make sence.


Mike

 

[Scooterman]

Seems picking color bulbs reflect the individual reefers desired look. More of a personal preference right? Seems for the most part if you use a MH with the proper wattage for the color range desired, then you will get the needed PAR & for the most part your done with that, & moving on to the next subject matter, right? Is that as simple as you can get in laymans terms.

 

[mojoreef]

hmmm how to summerize. Most of the bulbs out thier are going to give you the intencity u need (ie 400's and 250's for normal sized aquarium depths, 175's for shallow) If you wish to enhance to color of your colors (mainly sps) you can match the wave legnths needed and the results from that need to the waves offered by various bulbs. You should keep in mind an overall appearance of the tank to you visually also. Best to do a couple of examples in case I am mudding up the thoughts here.

Example one. Mike has a 30 inch deep tank with a bunch of SPS type corals. Wants good growth and want to enhance the colors of his corals, really like the blues and purples but also likes some reds. So I go back and look at the requirements of the pigments in the zoox first as that deals with growth. So looking at the pigments in zoox I see that they exept a broad range of colors, with an emphisis on blues and violet light. No problem thier. Now I go and look at the requirements of the pigments that give the corals nices colors (mostly SPS again) So I see that one type primarily absorbs light from 310 to 380 nm and floureses violet/blue, cool so thats a pick, So another pigment absorbs 380 to 470 nm (UV-A, violet and blue) and fluoresces light from 475 to 520 nm (blue and green). thats a candidate also. and another absorbs light from 430 to 490 nm (violet and blue) and fluoresces light from 490 to 540 nm (green/yellow). going to not worry about this one. So I am looking for a bulb now that emits good light in the range of 310 to 470 nm. So off to the chart I go. I look at the 400 watt radium and wooo I see a huge spike in the between the range of 425 and 475 so this looks good to me. But its still mising a couple of factors, One I need some more violet light say from 310 to 425 for the color I am looking for and also I would like a little bit more of a few more different colors to help with the growth requirements, sooooo back to the bulb charts and I find the 250 watt ushios, why only 250? because it has all the intencity my tank needs. Back to the colors wave. the ushio has good spikes in the violet range I am looking for so thats done but it also has great par in the balance of the colors required for growth. So done deal. Now I take a look at the over all picture. Is this light combo going to be good for my personal taste. In this case I love the light blue tone and the ushios are bright enough to make the tank very visable.

ANyway that is kinda the concept?? make sence??

MIke