Lets Talk About ~Reef Chemistry~

[NaH2O]

Thanks TG - I actually posted that one on the bottom of page 2, if Mike would pay attention...lol

 

[fishermann]

mike told me something the other nite on the phone that made it all click in my little brain. Most natural sea water is 1.027 salanity, it can very, but we keep our systems at 1.025 which is 14% less, if you take 412 calc. 1290mag. and figure 14% from there you well be in the ball park for being balanced. Is this not rite mike? if i understood you rite?

 

[NaH2O]

Sounds right - here is the quote about the percentage:

>At a salinity of 35ppt or 1.027 your cal should be 415
>at a salinity of 30ppt or 1.023 your cal would be 14% less so 357~
From thier its just math.

Matt seawater elemental ammounts are pretty easy to find on the web, so no secret thier. Seawater is also Ionically balance, everything is in proportion to each other that is also and easy find. We know that salinity is just the sum of all the elements right, so 35000 parts = SW. So now it just becomes math. What percentage less is 30000 to 35000???? about 14%, so then since all is ionically balanced, its pretty easy to figure out.

 

[Beeba]

After reading this entire thread I really wish I had paid more attention in chemistry class.

 

[fishermann]

I hated chem class, took the i sem. that was required and never looked back. I took all the wood shops and metal shops and i am a clock maker. I well never understand all the ions and all the other things that mike and nikki are talking about completely, but i do understand now natural seawater levels and how to figure from there what i need to keep my system in balance. I think this has been one of our best threads and want to thank mr mike for his time and nikki. Thankyou!!!!!!

 

[jeffsreefdotcom]

Wow. I think my brain is now saturated with Calcium, Carbonates, and phospates.

Here's a good one for pH. does the pH of your RO water have any effect on the pH after you mix in your salt mix? Also, can the content of the ambient air in the tank room have an effect on the gas exchange and thus pH in the tank?

I haven't tested the pH of my fresh RO water, but I have tested my fresh salt water (Crystal Sea) at 78 degrees and after mixing and airating over night and the pH is 8.0. After a few days with the pumps still running, I retested the pH of the new SW, and the pH had dropped to 7.7. The pH in my tanks is always low also (between 7.8 and 8.0, but my softs are thriving anyway), but I do not use kalk or a calc reactor or anything. Both tanks are in a basement. If there is more CO2 in the air in the basement, could this cause less CO2 to be released from the tank water?

 

[NaH2O]

During what point of your photoperiod are you testing pH?

 

[jeffsreefdotcom]

During what point of your photoperiod are you testing pH?

it's usually right around 6-7pm , so about 7-8 hrs after the lights are on.

 

[mojoreef]

Your close fisherman, just the part about natural seawater being 1.027. the 1.027 was just a reference mark.

Here's a good one for pH. does the pH of your RO water have any effect on the pH after you mix in your salt mix?

Hmm guess it would have to do with what was driving up the PH in the fresh.

Also, can the content of the ambient air in the tank room have an effect on the gas exchange and thus pH in the tank?

you betcha

I haven't tested the pH of my fresh RO water, but I have tested my fresh salt water (Crystal Sea) at 78 degrees and after mixing and airating over night and the pH is 8.0. After a few days with the pumps still running, I retested the pH of the new SW, and the pH had dropped to 7.7. The pH in my tanks is always low also (between 7.8 and 8.0, but my softs are thriving anyway), but I do not use kalk or a calc reactor or anything. Both tanks are in a basement. If there is more CO2 in the air in the basement, could this cause less CO2 to be released from the tank water?

yea the SW will take in co2, and drive down your ph. has alot to do with carbonate also. Whats your alk like??

Mike

 

[jeffsreefdotcom]

In my soft tank, it's high. Way high. I was reading my new test kit wrong and dosing up reef builder it's in the 14 range. right now, i'm doing 5 gallon water changes every two days. actually less, since I'm mixing tank water and new SW.

On my 120, the one I just yanked the plenum out of, my pH is now 7.8 and my kH is 9.0 dKH. lights have been on for almost 8 hours.

 

[mojoreef]

get about a 1/4 teaspoon of washing soda and mix it in a glass of ro water, pour it in the sump, should bounce it back up to where ou want it. Arm and hammer.

Mike

 

[fishermann]

Mike Do you mean baking soda?

 

[NaH2O]

There is also Arm & Hammer Washing Soda. Different than Baking Soda

 

[fishermann]

Nikki Where do you find that in the laundry section? Just curious i don't need it, just never knew there was such a thing.

 

[mojoreef]

the washing soda will jack up your PH with out effecting your alk


mike

 

[Katchupoy]

just my two cents.... here are my notes i always keep...

Washing soda from the grocery store is sodium carbonate, and would be a good way to raise the alkalinity and pH. Baking soda won't raise the pH.
Bakign soda has a slight pH lowering effect. Washing soda has a large ph raising effect. Both raise alkalinity.

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Here are two articles that describe what to do:

Solving Calcium and Alkalinity Problems
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

Solutions to pH Problems
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/iss...ne2002/chem.htm

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Kent Kalk = Calcium Hydroxide or Mrs. Wages pickling lime (will increase both your
calcium and alkalinity equally)

Kent Turbo Calcium = Calcium Chloride or DOW Ice Melt (increase your calcium)

????? = Baking Soda Arm & Hammer Unscented (Raises Alkalinity)

Kent Super Buffer = Baking Soda/baked or Washing Soda (used to raise ph)

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Epsom salts = Mg
Pickling Lime = Ca
Baking Soda = alk
Sodium carbonate = alk & ph

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I think pickling lime is CaOH - calcium hydroxide. Added to your tank it will increase both your calcium and alkalinity equally.

Dowflake is CaCl3 - calcium chloride. Added to your tank it will only increase your calcium

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I suggest 380-450 ppm Ca++

2.5-4 meq/L (7-11 dKH)

 

[Darrell]

so Epsom salts raises your Mag ? and how much to add and do you mix sepretly in SW or direcly in the sump good thread guys im learning loads of info but the light bulb hasnt come on yet maybe my ballast is bad LOL
Darell

 

[NaH2O]

Nikki Where do you find that in the laundry section? Just curious i don't need it, just never knew there was such a thing.

Yes. The one thing I've read to watch out for is surfactants.

I've been racking my brain trying to find the information I'm looking for....I thought I had read at one point that Epsom salts are to be used in certain situations - that it's better to use them in conjunction with another product. I'm not sure about this, that's why my brain is on overdrive. LOL hopefully someone will relieve my confusion...lol

 

[Scooterman]

Mike posted something about it on page two of this thread.

 

[NaH2O]

LOL - wait...let me check the color of my hair....yep appears to be blonde right now. Here is what he said on page one:

Getting Mag up is a bear, trust me I just went through this. 9 pounds of epson salts and 3 gallons of magnesium cloride later I got it back up where it belongs. I will never let that happen again.

and on page 2

Sure, great way to suppliment your alk. Take 1 part washing soda (Na2CO3) and 6 to 8 parts baking soda (NaHCO3), and 1 tsp of this powder in 25 gal seawater will raise your alk by 5 dKh or 90PPM. Sodium Carbonate can actually be prepared in a kitchen oven by spreading the powder out on a sheet and baking it for a few hrs at around 250F, This drives off a molecule of water and of Carbon Dioxide to leave a molecule of Na2CO3 from 2 molecules of NaHCO3. The advantage of the mixture is the lack of sudding fluctuation in pH seen when using NaHO3 alone.