Live rock

[wrighty]

Hi guys - New to this site but have accumulated 7 years reef keeping experience on 2 different continents - Europe UK and Asia -China where I currently live and work

I have read a number of threads on this site over last week or so and have found an interesting point of difference with regard rock used in reef building

In UK and now in China most reef tanks are built up fully consisting of live rock , Fiji is the preference
I have noticed 2 or 3 threads on this site that ocean rock (Tuffa I think we call it) is often used in the states as the basis of the reef with live rock on top of that
and in a seperate thread I notice the advocation of the purchase of dead rock to go into a tank containing live rock thus it may be seeded

Just wondering is this a common practice or do most of the reefers on this site prefer 100% live rock and utilise that combined with good flow and good skimming as the basis for biological filration?

I am aiming to get an insight into what for me is a different school of thought?

Sorry its a long one - I wont do it again

Steve

 

[MarineDreamer]

Steve,

If by "dead rock" you mean "base rock," which is rock that has been quarried, then you are seeing a few people out there using it.

The only reason that I’ve seen for using base rock, is simply to cut costs. Live Rock (LR) is running upwards of 6.99/lb (U.S. Dollar) and can quickly add up when you are needing a lot of rock for a big system.

I’ve personally had a bad experience while trying the base rock route. See this thread here. Others have not. The idea is to get your base rock in and then “seed” it with LR. The term “seed” means to use rock with existing bacterial cultures, (hence the term ‘live’ rock,) and introduce those cultures to the base rock in an aquarium.

Hope this helps.

 

[wrighty]

Hi Trevor - Yes yours was one of the threads i was referring to I had seen the images of the rock you had purchased

So cost of live rock is the predominate reason for the use of base rock in order to construct a reef - I see your point if its a big tank its a lot of dollars at that $7. per 1LB


It helps a lot - thank you

Steve

 

[plack]

To Me I've noticed more copepods on Tuffa than on say fiji rock don't know why maybe it's more porus ? anyone else noticed this ?

 

[sryder]

wrighty, welcome to reef frontiers. being that live rock costs so much alot of people will use a base rock or a cheaper grade fiji for the base and add larger or nicer looking show pieces on the top or outsides. it will eventually all seed with beneficial bacteria. I just got back into the hobby after a 10 year absence. I had saved all the rock from the previous system (around 75lbs) and bought new live rock to seed. my tank is around 3 months old and I have all kinds of pods on all of the old rock as well as the new. I think mojo said that it was like having new premium real estate in town. plack I also have some tuffa and yes their seems to be alot more pod activity there. probably like you said more porous.

 

[Beeba]

Welcome to Reef Frontiers. I'm one who started one of the threads on live rock vs. base rock. I was originally dead set against using anything but live rock but after a year and a half I decided to try some of the base rock to help with the cost. I want so many things for my tank that I thought this would be one way to save on costs and get other things I want instead of breaking the bank on live rock. I brought a peice of base rock back off the beach in Cancun last year and it didn't take long to become live and colorful so I thought this would be okay to buy the base rock.

 

[wrighty]

Excellent thanks for the input guys - Next question - It is widely held belief in Uk that Tuffa rock can absord nutrients and then dump them back in the system at a later date?
- This is often spoken about when a newbie comes on a site such as this one in UK and subesquently asks about use of tuffa in their reef systems
Is this a consideration for any of those using base rock on tanks on this site ?

Steve

 

[NaH2O]

Hmmm...Steve, that's a good question. I have 100% live rock in my tank, but I think the consensus (as you are seeing) is a way to save money. I'll toss out some thoughts, and see what you think. If the rock was once in a tank or out in the ocean....it is full of life. When that rock is removed from water and dried out, then all the life has died. When there is a bunch of dead organics, I can imagine it would be highly nutritive. Any rock will process nutrients, which is great....if any rock isn't cleaned off regularly (with a turkey baster or powerhead), the detritus can build-up in the rock and start to fuel algae growth down the road. If I were to use dead rock, then I would probably stick it in a bin to cook for awhile and clean it up, before placing in a tank.

I'd like to hear more thoughts on this....

 

[wrighty]

Thanks Nikki - My confusion here is that live rock is shipped moist and although there is die off a large number of the organisms do survive the shipping and subesquent re location - yet Tuffa rock is shipped dry and as such is deviod of any life when first introduced into a tank

Thus a tank with 100% dead/ tuffa rock would need additional biological filtration medium whereas many succesful reefs I know put most of the biological work load on the rock combined with very good skimming and excellent water circulation - up to and over 40 times tank volume per hour

My thinking has been educted into this being the way to go so am interested in other perspectives

Lastly I have seen corraline growing on Tufa but it grows better on plastics/ acrylic but no one terms the plastic live plastic - its just plastic with encrusting algae on it

Thus I am a little uncertain as to whether dead base rock with coralline on will ever be as beneficial as good quality live rock

Help enlighten me please as I fear I may be blinkered ?

Steve

 

[Beeba]

I'm not very experienced at this so I'm just throwing out a few thoughts. Let me know if I'm off base because I can use all the help I can get.

When buying the base rock I tried to find good rock that was porus so water could filter through it giving it lots of surface area just like the live rock I have. Many of the pieces look like fiji. My thought is that the organisms on the live rock would take over and help the base rock to become live. The coraline algae can grow anywhere so I wouldn't say that makes it live but it does improve the appearance of the rock and helps minimize the growth of hair algea (if I'm not mistaken the hair algea can't grown on the coraline algae).

 

[wrighty]

Hey Beeba - I would go along with the facts that corraline improves the appearnce of base rock and again I would agree that hair algae is prevented from colonising an area already occupied by coraline ( No sceintific explantion from me on that one but yes in my tanks only coraline grows on coraline no other algaes grow on it)

Steve

 

[NaH2O]

Steve - maybe we should qualify what we mean by live rock. For me "live" rock or sand, for that matter, is colonized with bacteria.....the bacteria is what does the processing. Certainly the various worms and 'pods are processing, but those critters also have waste material, which gets broken down further by bacteria. From my stand point, the dead rock.....that has been dried out, will eventually become "live" from my definition and have bacterial colonization. The rock will be able to function as a bacterial filter. A tank with 100% dead rock, would eventually gain the bacterial populations necessary to handle the bioload of the tank. But, inorder for a fully functioning system, I think critters also need to be introduced. Add a coral mounted on a piece of rubble, and I bet you would introduce enough pods to get a pod population growing.

As long as the base rock is porous, it will have bacterial colonies that make it as functional as fresh live rock.

Hope this helps.

 

[Beeba]

Nikki.. that is what I wanted to say but you found the words. Thanks!

 

[wrighty]

Thank you again Nikki - I understand and accept your explanation and am now developing it in my own mind - Yes there must be a point in any system when the bilogical filtration provided by rock work is achievable using previous dead rock - the enviromental conditions in the tank do replicate the sea - so if dead rock would ultimatly be a living rock in the sea it must surely behave similar in the tank

Thanks
Steve

 

[sryder]

beeba, i think you hit when you said pourus and wrighty earlier with the different types of bacteria. there is surface bacteria in which would cycle to the nitrate stage which i am sure covers all surfaces including plastic in the tank. then there is the bacteria that lives with little o2 within the pourus rock which breaks down the nitrates to nitrogen gas. as nikki said , the introduction of a coral, damsel or even a piece of dead shrimp from your grocery store will start the bacteria. all surfaces should become live in time. steve

 

[Jiddy]

What is the fastest way to creat a great pod population?

 

[wrighty]

Hi guys my next logical question is what ratio of live/ tuffa is considered acceptable in order to provide enough life to ensure colonisation of the tuffa

Would it be feasible to stock a reef with purely ocean rock with the only live rock being the basal rock that the corals are purchased with ? Or would a higher ratio of live to tuffa be advisable?

Steve

 

[Jiddy]

My understandin is that the ratio depends on time and money, it obviously takes longer for the base rock to be colonized by LR, and its obviously cheaper to buy base rock over LR

 

[sryder]

wrighty the more places you buy rock from the more diversity you will have in your tank. if you are only addding pieces of rubble that come with a coral it will take a little longer to populate your base rock. imo i would add a few pieces of rock from different places. the more you add the faster your populations will grow. as jiddy said place in what you can afford to put in.

 

[wrightme43]

I just had to post because my name is Steve and I didnt want to feel left out. Steve. LOL