LR Curiosity Question

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Krish

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I've heard time and time again about putting LR in a dark room with good flow for a few weeks/days (or whatever) whenever the rock becomes "full" and cannot denitrify etc. anymore after a long period of time being in a tank. Why is it that it has to be placed in a dark room or in a tank without light? Does it have something to do with bacteria (or whatever's consuming the rock) needing light, or have I just misunderstood the whole concept and the rock just has to be seperated from the main tank (which is the source of waste/bacteria/ditritus etc) to any empty tank for everything to die off and light really isn't a factor?
 
I dont know that this is right, but I think it is to kill the algae and let it fall off the rock and that will help with the detirus being able to fall off easier with out being held in by the alage, and feeding a crazy massive alage bloom.
 
If that was a guess Steve, then you made a good one(LOL) It sounds logical enough to me. Hmmm, so I did hear right then about no light...So then algae would be creating a "barrier" around the rock not allowing anything to penetrate the rock thus prohibiting denitrification to take place? If that is the case then a tank can be setup for years upon years without the rock ever having to go through this process once it is kept free of algae or is it inevitable?
 
i believe that's what people call cooking the rocks isn't it?

To eat?(LOL JK) Yeah, that is another way of going about it. However, I think cooking it will probably kill everything...coraline and all. Putting it in a seperate tank probably won't kill off everything...I think
 
What about your substrate then? I've heard people saying their substrate is "exhausted", "full", "clogged" etc. Same reason? I've never seen hairy green sand before(LOL) Is this different then or the same except you just toss out the old substrate and replace it with new? Sorry for so many questions...They just keep popping in my head...
 
It is my understanding that the po4 crystalizes with the carbonate and fills the pore structure of the sand and rock. The sand cant hold any more.
 
This is a VAST oversimplification...hopefully it makes sense.

Bacteria are constantly cleaning LR out. What happens is that LR and most sands are made of CaCO3 and phosphates naturally adsorb (chemically bond) to it. Then the good-guys that perform Nitrification/de-Nitrification for us engage in their 'bad habit'. Their bad habit is that they always want more phosphates (P) than they currently have. (It's a survival technique....they have to have enough P for themselves and for their offspring when they divide). They don't have mouths so they use acids and enzymes to literally dissolve the P right off the rock and sand. Unfortunately, bacteria measure their lives in hours, not days or years. Once they die, any P they contain becomes bio-available to other bacteria, re-adsorbing to CaCO3, or food for algae. (Luckily, it's usually other bacteria). This is why it's usually impossible to test for P with hobbyist test kits. Only after all other sinks are 'full' can P be tested for in the water column.

Have you ever turkey basted your rocks and thought to yourself, "There is NO WAY that my fish have pooped that much on my rocks"? You would be correct. Most of this detritus is produced by the bacteria that live on/in your rocks and if you don't have sufficient flow, you better be turkey basting your rock so your skimmer can remove it as it is supernutritious for algae. Now that bacteria have made a messy biofilm inside the porespace of your LR, and they keep dieing, mulm is produced. All of the descendents of the dead bacteria are still growing and they push filth, phosphates, mulm, sand, etc. to the surface of the rock where you should remove the detritus produced. Cooking does this in the dark for two reasons; 1) So that bacteria takes over as opposed to algae at this point, and 2) To kill any algaes that are already on the surface. Since it is done in a different tank or tub, there's never any additional P inputs. While I originally called the work that bacteria do a 'bad habit', it's actually a good thing as LR can always be cleaned out via bacterial action.

Cooking obviously requires judicious removal of this detritus and 100% water changes. For people who don't have a spare protein skimmer, this is usually accomplished by letting the rock cook with good circulation in the dark for a week, really shaking, dunking, etc. the rock in tub number 1 well, and then moving it to tub number 2. The following week, obviously there is brand new water in tub 1 and you do the shaking, dunking, etc. in tub 2 and move it back to tub 1. Cooking is done at normal tank temperatures.

Bacteria in sandbeds operate in the same manner. However, where is the detritus produced going to go? It's trapped on 5 sides and by gravity. Over time, the sandbed fills from the bottom up. Just like live rock, once you get to the surface, the detritus is supernutritious for algae.

Just like the Nitrogen Cycle, the Phosphate Cycle is going on 24/7. If you don't want algae problems, it is imperative that one minimizes P inputs and maximizes P exports 24/7 too. Waterchanges are great at removing Nitrates but they really aren't all that effective at removing P.
 
Well said Curt. Rock can take a long time to get to the point where cooking becomes necessary, but overcrowding and/or overfeeding causes the situation to reach the tipping point much faster. Efficient filtration and plenty of circulation will help prevent the need for cooking the rock. As Curt pointed out, "cooking" is not normally achieved by actually cooking the rock in an oven; but rather by leaving the rock in the dark in the same way that we cure it. As for cooking sand..., who uses sand these days? lol

Clayton
 
Ha... Sand.. what a thing of the past...j/k(I love it)Thats an interesting way of putting it Curtswearing and Clayswim....I never actually thought about cooking LR by depriving it from light and moving it to "new tanks" as a way of slowly ridding it of all living organism's..that is if I am uderstanding this all correctly.
 
nasher8860 said:
I never actually thought about cooking LR by depriving it from light and moving it to "new tanks" as a way of slowly ridding it of all living organism's..that is if I am uderstanding this all correctly.

What cooking does is remove the phosphates from the rock. Any living organism that isn't photosynthetic will be just fine.
 
Thank you guys for your input...Very informative. Curt do you teach at college level?(LO JK) Thanks again for all of the info. Always wanted to understand the whole concept...Now I can and do.
 
i just wanted to add that one of the most important aspects of the rock cooking is setting up about 3-4 1/2 full buckets of the water you are changing out of the "cooking vat" each week and violently shaking the rocks in sucsession in all the buckets to relaese all the detritus bound up in the rock. your done cooking(in usually a month or so) when you can shake the rocks and no detritus comes out, and the water remains predominantly clear.
 
i just wanted to add that one of the most important aspects of the rock cooking is setting up about 3-4 1/2 full buckets of the water you are changing out of the "cooking vat" each week and violently shaking the rocks in sucsession in all the buckets to relaese all the detritus bound up in the rock. your done cooking(in usually a month or so) when you can shake the rocks and no detritus comes out, and the water remains predominantly clear.

Sounds good...Thanks for sharing.
 
I understand the concept of "cooking", but the reality confuses me. If you take a beautiful reef tank, put it in the dark, change copious amounts of water, what do you get? Base rock.
Not being rude, I just don't get this new fad you crazy kids are into.
Many years ago, curing live rock was done the same way. When I cure rock, I treat it as if it were already a living reef, and get numerous more forms of life that would otherwise be eradicated with the slash and burn methods.
Please help me understand why the benefits of "cooking" merit the intentional removal of potentially beautiful specimens.
 
It is done after or right before a crashing system. The rocks are already saturated with Po4 and full of detirus. It is not done to new live rock. I cure mine the same way you do.
If a system has been run overstocked and with a less than steller skimmer this is a way to sorta fix the rock.
 
afishyonados said:
So to prevent the degradation of water/rock before armageddon, is to avoid unnecessary reprocussions from the fallout?
LOL
I am a little dense man, what does this mean in slow small words. LOL
Steve
 
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