Mandarin Goby Blow up

[Tieg]

We got a mandarin for our 80 gal tank about 6 months ago and it was extremely happy and welcome addition to the tank. About 2 weeks ago I noticed he started blow up rather dramatically and form rather grotesque wrinkles all over. Almost like he was fat...but then fat like protrusions started happening. I was patient with it but then he started to become stressed, rapid gill breathing, wouldn't go all over the tank anymore but rather stayed in one corner day and night. After a couple of days of him suffering I decided to end it by netting him out of the tank, which was quite easily done making me think he truly was sick, and placing him in a bowl of water and putting him in the freezer ending the suffering. I've had a mandarin in the past which lived for a year and a half....and he never had this issue.

Has anyone had any experience with this particular problem? I felt bad putting him in the freezer by my wife, mother in law, and myself felt he was in a bad way. Any input is welcome....short of calling me a fish murderer.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

My condolences on your loss and I hope the members of the site will show a little tolerance and sensitivity in spite of differences in opinion on how one euthanizes his suffering fish. There is no desirable methods, albeit some are slower than others.

Perhaps Lee can help with the mystery of what caused the ailment.

 

[Curtswearing]

I've never heard of that ailment before. However, letting it slowly go to sleep and feel no pain was a responsible decision.

 

[gloo]

I've never heard of that ailment before. However, letting it slowly go to sleep and feel no pain was a responsible decision.

I've seen a similar thing happen to a frog fish, but the swelling did not last more than a day, and he returned to normal.

 

[Curtswearing]

Yeah, froggies do that sometimes....I don't know why. (Actually, that's a good question for our resident frogfish expert).

So do puffers but if you know how to burp them properly, it goes away.

This is not the same thing. I've probably dealt with 1000 mandarins and never seen this before.

 

[rjarnold]

That's quite a sickness and nothing like what puffers do - which is a defensive reaction (bigger makes them harder to swallow, type "Hungry Frogfish" on youtube and you'll see exactly what I mean in a rather humorous sort of way). Interestingly, there were several reports of frogfishes doing something similar, but at the time of writing the book, Frogfishes of the World, the authors could do nothing to make any of them 'puff up.' It was concluded that either it hadn't happened or the creature must have been severely harassed.

For awhile, my own experiences were the same - I never saw a frogfish 'puff up'. However, after a couple of years I saw a frogfish that was being euthanized puff up, so then my thinking was that it was, indeed, a severe stress reaction. But alas, now I have an A. commerson (Giant) that lives in a small 'pen' in my tank that's basically just kept closed by pushing it up against the glass. As you can imagine, it sometimes escapes, and when I put my hand it to shoo it back into its pen, I've seen it take in water the same way a puffer does and 'puff up.' It has no problems expelling the water either. Now I'm left wondering whether it is just A. commerson, that species group, or more the reaction of the individual.

That's about all I know on the puffing up issue

 

[Curtswearing]

Thanks for replying to this thread.

I only had it happen in the QT warehouse. I've never seen it happen in the store. There were hundreds of 40 gallon breeders side by side. I wonder if the fish they saw the next tank over had anything to do with it?

 

[rjarnold]

Thanks for replying to this thread.

I only had it happen in the QT warehouse. I've never seen it happen in the store. There were hundreds of 40 gallon breeders side by side. I wonder if the fish they saw the next tank over had anything to do with it?

Perhaps... did it live to the point of getting sold?

 

[pebbles]

Sorry out your loss.

Just wondering, what were you feeding him?

Its just that I've heard of a few cases of this, usually at the 1-2 year mark and I was curious whether it could be diet related


cheers
angie

 

[leebca]

First Tieg, I must say something about how to properly euthanize a fish. The freezing method is torture. The fish (like a human) first finds it hard to breath and then, while it lungs and body freezes, the fish suffocates -- slowly. This IS torture. Please read this post: Euthanasia -- Putting a Marine Fish Down

With regards to Mandarins. . .The Mandarin is a pod eater. It picks things off the substrate, rocks, and decorations/landscaping. Before you invite one of these into your home, please be prepared for it by following the recommendations given here: Pod Eaters

With regards to this particular fish. . .It is hard to say for sure why the fish bloated. Most bloating is due to an internal infection or parasitic attack. The cause(s) for these are wide and varied -- from disease to intestinal blockage. Without necropsy and other diagnostic techniques, I can' go much beyond this. I do believe you were correct in the action (euthanasia) you took (but not that method).

 

[Curtswearing]

Perhaps... did it live to the point of getting sold?

Yes. I have had several do it. They all got better while in QT before I moved them to the store.

 

[Tieg]

First Tieg, I must say something about how to properly euthanize a fish. The freezing method is torture. The fish (like a human) first finds it hard to breath and then, while it lungs and body freezes, the fish suffocates -- slowly. This IS torture. Please read this post: Euthanasia -- Putting a Marine Fish Down

With regards to Mandarins. . .The Mandarin is a pod eater. It picks things off the substrate, rocks, and decorations/landscaping. Before you invite one of these into your home, please be prepared for it by following the recommendations given here: Pod Eaters

With regards to this particular fish. . .It is hard to say for sure why the fish bloated. Most bloating is due to an internal infection or parasitic attack. The cause(s) for these are wide and varied -- from disease to intestinal blockage. Without necropsy and other diagnostic techniques, I can' go much beyond this. I do believe you were correct in the action (euthanasia) you took (but not that method).

Thx for the response....I am pretty positive by the gross bloating of the fish that it had some sort of fungal infection. The fact that I killed it in a most inhuman way makes me want to just give up the hobby. 2 things I have learned from your articles....
1. Not getting any more pod eaters.
2. Investing in some Clove Oil for future problems.

Again thanks for the input.

Guilt ridden in Seattle. (or just west of it)

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Thx for the response....I am pretty positive by the gross bloating of the fish that it had some sort of fungal infection. The fact that I killed it in a most inhuman way makes me want to just give up the hobby. 2 things I have learned from your articles....
1. Not getting any more pod eaters.
2. Investing in some Clove Oil for future problems.

Again thanks for the input.

Guilt ridden in Seattle. (or just west of it)

Your method was much better than many I have read about and have also seen a lot of suffering with the use of clove oil. IMHO, the only way to be humane is to be swift and that gets a bit gruesome. You did the right thing with your fish and that shows responsibility and compassion.

On to better topics and happier times.

 

[leebca]

If you feel remorse about the way things have gone then you are just the right kind of person we want in the hobby. Too bad some of our learning is through the loss of marine lifeforms, but that is human nature. Just take some comfort that there are those (of us) that have been through these sacrifices and have the ability to share this info before you go through these experiences with the similar losses.

Keep on keeping on!

 

[jmp21677]

I have seen a local koi store use clove oil to relax the fish as they gave them antibiotics. They just put it on a rag and put the rag over the kois mouth. They were instantly sleeping.