monti caps and digi's bleaching everythingelse ok

[snowstar]

guys I'm sort of confused on this one... My 180 is predominately sps.. my montipora digitatas are blesaching initially just the oragne digi then an olive digi - then my monti cap that is green with purple rim. All my acros (2 purple that have not colored up), yellow with green polyps, blue tort; pocillapora(2 green); millipora (blue, rose, "hairy blue"); green slimer, pavona (2 green); elephant ear; merullina; pink catspaw are doing well - they are not as "happy" as I have ever seen them - looking maybe just a bit washed out but color is still pretty good and the polyp extension is not as great as normal. Ideas.

Here are the tank parameters.

salinity -1.024/1.025
ph - 8.4
temp 80 to 82 (this swing was much worse - I recently moved a mag24 out of the sump and the heat came back closer to in-line) - could be bleaching culprit.

I don't really test for nitrate or phosphate.... I feel they are not very accurate tests. I try to judge by the amount of algae on the glass or rockwork. It is very minimal but there is a tiny bit of hair algea on a rock.

primary lighting is 3 SE 250 MH (2 XM 15Ks and 1 XM20K) photoperiod is 10 AM to 10 PM and the bulbs are about 7 mos old.

my supplemental lighting has been off the system for about 3 weeks I'm switching out from 4 of the 6ft. VHO (all actinic03) to 6 96watt pc - all the split 460/420nm bulbs.

primary flow is a cl powered by a sequence hammerhead 4 drains to pump, 11 returns to tank - I will be adding an MBV in the next two months or possibly this month during thanksgiving break.

skimming is a dual becket made by Trigger Systems - does a fantastic job.

I did add a 18 UV in the last month and I noticed the bleaching a bout a week after ---- could the UV have increased the par that much in that short of time?

That's about all I can think of at the moment. I really want to get this worked out becasue there will be a lot of equipment adds in the coming months as I try to get prepped to upgrade to a lager tank... Not to distract the thred before I even start but I have been very worried about my MH bulb choices. Should I move back to 10ks with a 14k in the middle?

thanks for listening and any help/input you guys have!

 

[mojoreef]

These days Snow I would look into any parasites? things like the acro eating flatworms, nudibrachs and red bugs. The UV should not have any effect on the corals.


Mike

 

[big t]

I would definately look for the monti eating nudibrachs. On you MH lighting question, I had a lot of problems when I tried out the 15k xm's. It was in conjunction w/ a tank move so I cannot blame them entirely. Once I switched back to 10k the tank started making a rapid comback.

 

[snowstar]

unless they are truly microscopic, the nudibrach's are not there, same for the flatworms. Same for the red bugs + the corals were all grown from friends tanks and then have grown in my tank for the past 4 to 6 months and these folks all treat their frag tanks with interceptor periodically. I forgot to mention I also have a larry jackson acro that is doing well as well as heliopora, hydnophora and 2 Mac'c Montis that are doing well... I just don't get it.... Thanks for the idea though Mike - are the flatworms and nudi's generally visable to the naked eye? Is treating your display tank with interceptor safe for the fish and inverts also? If so what would the dosage be for a 180?

 

[snowstar]

big t thanks for the comment/opinion on the 15K XM's... I have 2 Aqualine 10K's ... they are a bit old but I could go back to them to see if I see anykind of difference. While I'm ordering new bulbs. Do you use all 10K's for your MH? Also you and Mike may have missed in my original post --- I did have some temp swings of 5 degrees until I pulled that pump out of my sump and went external with it... maybe that's it... I'm just so not wanting it to be parasites. Especially ones I do not know how to treat for.

 

[mojoreef]

Big swings will get ya to Snow, and that could be it. Alot of times they can hang on for awhile before finally kicking. On the flat worms they are transperant, so a search on them we have a good picture of them on RF. On the nudid they tend to spend thier time under the coral until night and then they come out. Did you check for holes and jelly??


Mike

 

[big t]

I personally have 2 250W 10k XM's on my 90 w/ no suppliment. I just got a pari of 250W Radiums going on my frag system, so I don't have any comment on those yet, except they are blue

 

[snowstar]

Mike - no holes or jelly and I tried watching the monti's while the lights were out with using moonlight leds only and could not see any nudibranchs. Looking at the pictures in the forum I don't think it's any type of flatworm either. At this point I'm targeting temp swings and possibly lighting. I've about got the temp situation solved - temporarily. I've decided to stablize the tank at 83 as opposed to 80 - even after pulling the pump out I'm still getting a 3 degree swing. Can the majority of the sps handle a stable temp of 83 long term (six months or so)? I'm trying to wait until I have my controller (thinking about the aquacontroller III) and am a bit closer to upgrading the 180 before installing a chiller. If I need to go ahead and get the chiller, will it hurt to get a chiller that is technically way to large for a 180? I'm looking to upgrade to the 180 to either a 450 (72x48x30) or a 374 (60x48x30) and so I know it will need a larger chiller than a 180.... I am guessing that I will need a 1/2 hsp chiller on new tank. Sooo for now will it hurt to stabilze at 83 and then when the tank gets upgraded slowly bring it back down to 80?

 

[snowstar]

Oh another thing - I thought the temp had stabilized at 80 to 82 but last night I came home and the peak was 84 during the day... I guess I need to go back and re-address the temp problem. That is why the previous post about the chiller... as I said, I pulled the skimmer pump (mag24) out of the sump and that seemed to help with the increased temperature ---- but slowly the temp seems to be climbing back up during the day. I guess until I get the chiller I just need to suck it up and set the heaters at 81 degrees and turn on the fans full time (there are 3 -8" fans over the back of the tank and 1 - 8" fan blowing over the sump) not just when the halides are on - I just hate evaporating over 5 gallons a day without an auto-toppoff in place. So many things to keeping a successful tanks are tied together ---- hopefully the battle will "mostly be over" once I get some of the bigger pieces of tech in place. I know that it is never really over - the battle just shifts to something new!

 

[mojoreef]

Yea sounds like you found a big issue, best of luck


Mike

 

[snowstar]

Mike do you have any reccomendations and thoughts on how best to handle the temp situation given I'm up grading the tank? I will probably start a new thread soon about it I jsut hate to drag out a thread as long as this mya run.... thoughts

thanks

 

[ldrhawke]

Ron Shirmek made some interesting observations and comments on the topic of reef stability in this article.....http://www.reefland.com/rho/1105/reefc7.php

 

[snowstar]

Thanks for the link....Interesting article --- But I think I'll wait on some other brave soul to try that method of reefkeeping ... all I can do is work on the success I have had with various smaller tanks over the years and try to incorporate that into my current tank - currently the largest one I have owned - and the first predominately sps tank. My experiences have always been the more stable I can keep both the temperature and the salinity in addition to the other "standard water parameters" the better my animals grow and reproduce.

 

[ldrhawke]

........... My experiences have always been the more stable I can keep both the temperature and the salinity in addition to the other "standard water parameters" the better my animals grow and reproduce.

I'm with you....but it does show that coral are exposed to much wider range of conditions than we often think about. The coral in our tanks are probably under a much higher level of stress to start, and I agree that the more stable we keep our systems the less trouble we may have.

 

[kevinpo]

Hello,
I didn't see any alkalinity or calcium levels posted. High alkalinity in conjuction with high temperatures can have a negative impact on some SPS corals. I recommend 78-80F range and an alkalinity level of not higher than 3.2 meq/L. Calcium about 400ppm +- 20ppm.

In regards to the XM 15,000K bulb the one I tested lasted about 5 months before many of the SPS corals began to turn brown. A very poor bulb (at least the one I had). I would guess the 20,000K would have even lower PAR but I have't tested it.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[snowstar]

Alk is arount ~2.9 and Ca is ~390 so all is within range...

As for the XM's I will be replacing them, I thought that I hade my "old" AB 10Ks but they seem to be MIA so I ordred the Reeflux 10k's and should have them Friday. I'll start the reacclimation process using screen this weekend.

 

[kevinpo]

I think you're really going to like the results you get with your new bulbs.

Regards,
Kevin