Moving an established tank....

[whowadat]

Hello, given the propensity for used systems being put up for sale maybe my experience can be of help to someone else.

Recently I purchased a 120 gallon tank that was setup with 100 pounds LR, a small mix of soft corals, and four fish for approximately two years. (a yellow tang, a mandarin, a black/white damsel, and a six line wrasse) Seeking out the knowledge of experienced reefers first, several suggestions were made which I followed, some were made which I didn't.

It was suggested that I take as much of the old water to the tank's new home, I took over 75 gallons replacing the remainder with fresh SW. ( I use RO/DI from a new Spectrapure system I set up)

It was suggested that I discard the old sandbed which was pretty nasty looking, I discarded all but a half of gallon which I placed into the refugium to "seed" the LR in there.

It was suggested that I discard the chaeto that had been growing in the fuge, I kept a baseball size wad.

It was suggested that I could/should put all the livestock back in the tank immediately as it was established and I would have just a "mini cycle".

It was suggested/offered that the fish be held in someone else's tank while my rebuild went through its "mini cycle".

I purchased a 40 gallon tank for QT purposes and due to delays in moving tank it had been set up and cycled to some degree by the time rebuild was set up. Four fish included with purchase of 120 tank ended up in that tank, and all four fish are still there apparently doing fine with no issues.

It was suggested that when I put fish into my new/old 120 that they be put in there at the same time to avoid any territorial disputes. It was suggested that 1" of fish per 5 gallons of water would be a good ratio.

When I say "suggested" I am talking about the opinions of at least a dozen experienced local reefers, LFS owners/long term employees from multiple stores, and supposedly respected message board/forum participants.


I decided to wait four weeks before putting any fish into tank. During this time frame I made 30 gallon water changes twice, watched what I believe to be a diatom bloom come and go, watched the growth of green hair algae come and go - after adjustments to flow and replacing of MH bulbs. Never was any food put in there, weekly water testing was done to include..... PH, Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, Phosphates, Calcium, Alkalinity, and Salinity

As of a week ago Ammonia and all "ates" were undetectable using an API tester, PH stands at 8.0 to 8.2, Salinity at 1.025 measured with a refractometer calibrated with fluid, Calcium at 400, Alk at 9, tempature at 78 degrees.

I use a EuroReef CS8-2 skimmer pulling a wet skimmate which filles up the collection cup once in a 24 hour period, I have an ATO keeping water level stable with RO/DI, I run a fuge light 24/7 and two 250 watt MH bulbs (10K) running 8 hours a day. I have a MAG 18 return pump with two overflows, three Tunze 6025 move things around, I have an estimated 150 pounds of LR with a 3" deep sand bed in a refugium - all in all a 40 gallon sump.

As you know from a previous post fish were put in tank with one having died, but given the information in this post, what more should I of done before adding fish, how many fish can I add, and when can I add fish ? What sort of clean up crew and in what numbers should be used ? - presently I have 5 Turbo snails keeping algae in check, with a half dozen blue leg crabs picking over the rocks.

It is my desire to keep a Chevron Tang, a Yellow Tang, and four different types of dwarf Angelfish. Although it wasn't my intention I also have a Marine Betta which will end/did end up in that tank if not sold. (it was included in an all or nothing purchase of equipment and coral)

Thank you for your time and input, I'm happy to provide more info if necessary.

 

[Darthv247]

TBH its really hard to take advice from ten different people and come up with the exact way to handle things because everyone seems to have a different philosophy and they most likely dont know all the different variables that may or may not be. Every case is different and really when somehting worries you enough to ask 10 people you really should be asking yourself if all this sounds too fast. Everything in this hobby takes time and haste is never a good idea. even proffesionals when setting up a tank for clients will take every precaution and make sure all their options are exhausted before taking any risk.

I hate to seem like im badgering you like others have but im just hoping that people stop trying to do too much at once and take time no matter the savings they might make by taking shortcuts. ive been just as guilty of it myself and it ussually doesnt end up goign well. Just take the time and do it safely with the least amount of stress to your animals and even more so the least amount of stess to yourself ! The hobby is supposed to be fun NOT a headache.

again sorry for your headache man weve all been there. hope everything goes well with the restocking of the tank.

 

[whowadat]

Hello,

Thanks for the input. You touch on a real problem in marine fish keeping imho - too many folks with too many ideas, some got every contraption and chemical out there fiddling with their tank all day long and can't keep a snail alive, while others got Penguin HOBs, topping off with tap water, no skimmer, and haven't done a water change in months with a tank overflowing with life.

Keep in mind, I bought a used tank.....in a way you have no choice but to dive right in. Take for example the need to address the issue of four fish coming with everything, what do I want to do for simplicity and less cost - flush them all down the toilet.

A simple question like, will this "mature" tank go through another cycle....is/was answered multiple ways depending on the respondants point of view. The LFS might say Nah, you can buy these fish right here and put them in tomorrow, while the guy with deep pockets might give you a grocery list of everything your gonna need just to keep a goldfish alive.

Apparently nobody knows for sure, I even asked a guy who is the manager of a municipal water treatment plant (and an avid reefer too) and he said a few days would be fine. I waited four weeks....patience isn't the issue. Lack of knowledge....yes, patience no.

I got a 40 gallon breeder I started from scratch, stuff is growing like crazy and I've never had a problem. (this is a small tank which is supposed to be more problematic) This used 120 has given me nothing but troubles and expense. Here's a suggestion based upon my experience......leave the used stuff alone, it sucks inheriting someone else's troubles. (which may be why they're selling it in the first place)

BTW....the other fish are in the tank seem to be fine, its just the two that came from LFS that have issues. That's another thing, if you see dead fish in your LFS's tanks on multiple visits, find another LFS cause you again your just gonna inherit someone else's problem. What a shame to spend big bucks on livestock only to have to QT everything 'cause the mass shippers/distributors couldn't care less about conditions and your LFS probably won't stand behind their product. I know I sure wouldn't buy a sick puppy or one that came from a breeder who didn't care for them properly, but when it comes to marine fish....well, that's a whole 'nother story.

Time to regroup.....

 

[leebca]

A moved tank is a tank in between new and mature. It needs time for the bacteria to re-establish their metabolism and numbers. So the usual, 'go slow' and 'add bioload slowly' and 'test water quality very often' is the way to go.

Depending upon how much of the 'old' was removed/replaced, you find a place in this general process to start the moved tank running again: Starting up a Marine Aquarium.

 

[brandyrb]

I'm curious why you discarded the sand and chaeto? Unless it had a planaria infestation or something, I would've kept all of it. If you wanted to keep the sand live, swishing it around in the saltwater in a separate bucket would've cleaned it up some. If it was really nasty, rinsing it in RO/DI water would've made it like new again, but it wouldn't be live sand anymore.

Everytime my husband and I have upgraded our aquariums, we transferred everything from the original aquarium over and slowly added new sand/rock if it was needed. The one time we bought a used system, we took most of the water, all the sand and live rock with us and setup the tank just as it had been before us. We also had some fresh saltwater mixed to make up for the amount of water we were short in the system. There is a little die off in the moving process, but not enough to re-cycle the tank. IMO, it's less stress on the inhabitants too.

 

[whowadat]

Hello,

Thank you everyone for your input, I appreciate the response.

I tossed the majority of the sand and chaeto after consulting with others who had previous experience moving tanks. I guess the main reason for me was during the 4-5 weeks between the time I agreed to purchase the tank and the time I actually paid for and moved it, the previous owner had let it go bad. I'm talking over run by algae - the red "cotton candy" type which nothing but maybe turbo snails will touch, and the surface of the sand was almost black with heavy detritus seen throughout. The chaeto too was covered in a thick slime of some sort - a tan to dark color.

My understanding was a DSB when seriously disturbed would lose all its beneficial bacteria, the anaerobic bacteria that breaks down nitrates. When we started pulling LR out of the tank and messing up the sand, the smell made me gag not to mention you couldn't see a darn thing. (I had syphoned cleaner water out earlier which I kept) It was suggested I purchase a new bag of "live" sand which I did, and since I wasn't going with a DSB when setting it back up, I tossed the majority of the sand. As mentioned earlier I kept a half gallon for the fuge.

I had been offered chaeto from another reefer's established tank so I tossed the majority of it - that deal never worked out so I was glad that I kept some of the original chaeto. It by the way seems to be growing well with plenty of nice green shoots.

I had saved all the original LR and had a few other pieces purchased from fellow reefers which I had cycling/alive for over a month in a large tub with a powerhead and heater before putting them in the tank. The tank as previously mentioned sat fallow for another 4 weeks prior to the addition of fish. Again, the three fish purchased from a fellow reefer who had them for a couple of years are doing fine in that tank, the two purchased from LFS after waiting 10-14 days after their arrival are struggling - well, one is dead. Weekly water testing has never revealed any detectable levels of ammonia, phosphates, or nitrites with nitrates having showed <10 at one time but now zero. Of course the API color charts are a little bit hard to define between 5 - 10 (Calcium and Alk are/have been 400/9 dKH)

 

[DonW]

Honestly your much better off getting a better understanding of water chemistry. A good understanding of water chemistry would have answered all your questions without mixed advice.

Don

 

[whowadat]

Well, I sure wouldn't argue about the need for understanding water chemistry - nor a bunch of other aspects of marine husbandry. (I'm mean just look at all the "stickies" in this message board that are important to understand)

However, no matter the consideration of numerous variables, you still have to make a decision about what to do. If I educated myself thoroughly, I would have no need to ask questions of this board or fellow reefers. (although I could read every book out there and still wouldn't have any "experience" which is why I ask questions) Heck, maybe after reading a bunch of books I could just start my own board and throw my 2 cents in on the discussion because in reality for every argument made to do A. there's somebody else telling you to do B. or C. or D. and it can be very frustrating.

My hope is to learn from my mistakes, I recognize several that I made but hindsight is 20/20 I'm just gonna take a deep breath and regroup.... I've got alot to be positive about......thanks again for your input!

 

[DonW]

Understanding the chemistry and applying it to the mechanics will help you distinguish the bs from good advice. Once you figure out the chemistry its pretty simple.

Don