My Sump and Refugium Diagram

[f1504b4]

Hi Krish thanks for all your help can you look at this.
A diagram of my set-up that I am building and some pictures of what I have to start with.
It's a 75 gallon aquarium,48x18x18.
As you can see I have the return coming on the same side as my overflow because this is a room divider aquarium.
The pictures show a 20 gallon aquarium as the sump, my first try.
Anyways this is the diagram of what I am going to have made,check it out let me know if you see any mistakes?
Phil

 

[f1504b4]

Okay if I have this figured right,my second baffle witch is 10" will control the water level.
My total sump volume is 39.5 gallons.
And if that second baffle at 10" controls the height of the water in my sump than the volume will be 26.3 gallons.
I have already figured 7.5 gallons max for power outage so I should be okay with this design?
Let me know okay because I have read that you should have a good size skimmer section section and at the same time you want to have your return section section big enough for evaporation,but I am going to set up an auto top off for that.
Phil

 

[Krish]

Looks good to me Phil! The skimmer section is typically big because most skimmers have to sit in there, but seeing yours sits outside, then why waste the space Also, you are right...That second baffle will set the height for the sump (well the refugium section). The first baffle will set a higher water level in the skimmer chamber over the rest of the sump, but that is fine. As for the back siphon, I think you'll be fine. I had less space than that in one of my sumps and was fine. You can always add a second hole or put a slightly bigger hole than usual in your return nozzle to break the siphon a lot quicker if the need arises. That's what I did. I put 3 holes in my return nozzle and it almost immediately broke the siphon. However, the fact that your return chamber is pretty big, you'll have tons of space/play. One thing I use to do to give me more play in my sump's return chamber was put an elbow on my return pump that would allow it to suck water from like an inch off of the bottom of the sump. This allowed me to set a lower water level in my return chamber for back siphon as the pump could be about 50% out of the water and still operate. That may be an option for you as well if you need the extra "play" for back siphon after testing. The fact that you will have an auto top off means you won't have to worry about your sump running dry from evaporation while you are out. The only issue I had with my water level so high and which you may have as well is salt creep from splashing and so forth which can easily be fixed with a small lid (if needed) right over the input chamber, but be sure to leave the rest of the sump un-covered so you won't be trapping in heat

Just a few thoughts...Good luck!

 

[f1504b4]

Another question someone brought the point that my set-up will leave the flow high in the refrugium any thoughs?
And there won't be enough cirrculation on the bottom fo the refugium?

 

[Krish]

Depending on what you keep in there, you may have to pop a powerhead in there for circulation. If you are going to keep the bottom of the refugium chamber bare (meaning no sand that would be stirred) maybe you can add in a baffle like I added in the attachment below so water can enter the fuge section from the bottom rather than the top. Just a thought

 

[f1504b4]

Hi Again,I see what you are saying,that would bring the flow in from the bottom but I was thinking live sand and LR in there and that would not work.A power head would keep the circulation up but wouldn't that create and to much sand mix?I guess thats why people have the return in the middle and the refugium on the end?
I just want to get this right because I have a guy at my local glass place that will build the first one I showed you for $150.00 which I thought was a good price and to change the baffles around would not change the price that much.
Phil

 

[Krish]

Depending on how you point the flow, you won't have a sand storm. It's all about placement. You can use a maxijet and that should do the trick

 

[f1504b4]

Ok I see I think where you are coming from.
Refugium section works out to be 13.9 gallons,Skimmer section 4.4 gallons.
Return 5 gallons.
What size for PH if I go that way.
Do you have any diagrams of a center return with the refugium on the right so I can make my mind up and do it?
If you know what I mean because both ways will work I would just like to compare them and make my mind up on what I want to do.
Thanks for all the help you have giving me.
Phil

 

[f1504b4]

Hey where are you in the Bahamas.
Thinking of there or Jamaica for vacation this year.

 

[Krish]

Ok I see I think where you are coming from.
Refugium section works out to be 13.9 gallons,Skimmer section 4.4 gallons.
Return 5 gallons.
What size for PH if I go that way.
Do you have any diagrams of a center return with the refugium on the right so I can make my mind up and do it?
If you know what I mean because both ways will work I would just like to compare them and make my mind up on what I want to do.
Thanks for all the help you have giving me.
Phil

Personally I've never tried any that way However, there are a few designs here http://www.melevsreef.com/links.html You'll just need to go to the second section on that page highlighted in blue titled "Sump/Refugiums & Acrylic Work" and check out the sumps listed in alphatetical order there and see if one stands out to you. Just out of curiosity, but is there any reason why you wanted to put sand and live rock in the fuge section? The reason why I ask is because typically all the biological filtration and denitrification that is needed for any given tank is usually handled by the rock in the main display. The little space set aside in a sump usually doesn't add that much benefit not to mention, will require maintenance if there isn't sufficient flow in there. Rocks shed and if the waste is allowed to accumilate in there and rott, over time you will experience water quality issues. I'm not saying you shouldn't use live sand or rock because there are more than one way to go about things in this hobby and be successful, but just keep in mind, you may need to also do sump maintenance in addition to tank maintenance to keep waste to a minimum. As for a circulation pump, a maxijet 1200 may be a good little powerhead to start out with. Doesn't add any heat to talk about, is under $20, reliable, quiet and gives you about 295 gph of flow

Hey where are you in the Bahamas.
Thinking of there or Jamaica for vacation this year.

I'm in the capital!! Nassau! If you look in my signature that follows all of my posts, you will see a link titled, "My Bahamian photo Album". If you haven't seen it, check it out. Atlantis alone will drive you nutts!

 

[f1504b4]

I read so much and looked at different ways to set-up a sump refrugium it's just so much confusion in my mind as to with witch way to go about doing it if you know what I mean.
Most posts
and every thing I read say keep LR AND live sand in your refugium.
And my skimmer section should be big like I drew.And the return big enough for evapoation.
So I thought that my set-up was good until I heard and thought about th circulation in my refugium?
And know I don't know if the set-up I have i right?
phil

 

[Krish]

Yeah, it gets a bit confusing sometimes which was why I hesitated all day about mentioning the sand and live rock in your sump. I started to type it twice and deleted it, but figured it was best to mention the potential problems associated with keeping them in there (if not maintained or taken care of properly) as I experienced it first hand before, and wouldn't want you to fall in the same predicament. Not all people have issues, but even just running a bare bottom sump sometimes, you have to vaccum periodically as detritus will settle in there if flow isn't adequet. Here's a pic to show you what I mean. I had 3 rocks in my old sump under my 75gal and decided to remove the 3 because of this (which I siphoned up) that was settled underneath them and that's with 800 gph of flow passing through my sump



Typically, you see more bare bottom refugiums these days with a ball of chaeto in there for nutrient export and that's about it. Me, I never had anything in my fuge (other than what grew on it's own) and I haven't had any traces of nitrates since about May/June of last year. Those that keep sand and rock in their sumps either vaccum periodically or have critters to cleanup for them. Don't get too bummed out though man...Like I said, more than one approach to this hobby. You have to go with what works best for you as people do keep sand and rock in their sumps without any issues. If you set it up according to your first drawing and decide later that you want to remove the sand and the rock because it isn't working for you, then no biggie. The sump is excellent with your design with or without sand and rock in there so nothing would need to be changed. Adding in extra flow to accomodate the rock and sand is no biggie either. You can just toss in one maxijet for starters (like I mentioned)and if you realize you need a little more flow, then pop in one more. No major cost and no major work. Your incoming flow may be sufficient so powerheads may not even be needed! I personally say go with what is comfortable for you. don't get too stressed out as the way you are planning to set this sump up people have them set up that way now and have no issues

Here's a thread you may find helpful. It shows all of the different sump/refugiums memebrs here have. You can see all the diversity and get some ideas as well

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10264&highlight=show+filtration+systems

 

[f1504b4]

Thanks,give me time to dijest what you are saying I will get back to you.any pics of the end refigium?
Phil

 

[Krish]

Did you want a pic of a sump that has the skimmer on one end, refugium on the other end and return in the center? If so, I think I can find a pi of one on Marc's website operational like that. Give me a few

 

[Krish]

Here's one and the link for it is under the pic showing the build and other shots





http://www.melevsreef.com/55g/55sump.html

Here's another cool one with the refugium in the back compartment

http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/j/sump_model_j.html

 

[f1504b4]

Thanks Krish,that would help me alot as making my of mind as way to go.What would you do/
Phil

 

[theJ]

thats sweet!!

 

[Krish]

Thanks Krish,that would help me alot as making my of mind as way to go.What would you do/
Phil

Did you see my last post I edited and added in the pic and has links? As for what I would do, I would build the sump the way you have it drawn as that design can be used many many ways. If you want to try the live rock and sand, then I say go for it. If it doesn't work out so well, then just remove it all and use the sump as is because like I said, the live rock in your main display should be able to handle all of your biological and denitrification needs once you have enough rock in there to support your bioload. By removing the sand and rock if it doesn't work out so well, you can pop a macro algae in there (where the live rock and sand was) and give that a shot or, if you decide to use an in-sump skimmer, you have tons of space to put one in there and so forth. That design has many options and is very versitile. Just a personal thought of mine...I'll check back in on ya in the morning to see if you've decided anything, but as it is with anything in this hobby, just take your time and do what works best for you

 

[f1504b4]

these pics are hard to understand.

 

[f1504b4]

can you give me a diagram?
Pil