Need Help : Clam care {2-3cm (1")}

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Wonder

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After long pestering to LFS, i finally manage to get 8 ultra maxima clams but they are all very small (juvenile) :oops:

I really need some advise on how to provide them with tender care.:oops:

Information gather from the internet.

1) Clean water.

2) Feed ammonium Nitrate 4g/1000L. I suppose this is not required in our reef tank since it is nutrient rich in most cases

3) Phytoplankton (subjective ??) - Are dead/dry phytoplankton acceptable as food ?

4) Lighting : is direct 2x39Watt HO just 6" away from the light source enough (due to lack of space) ? or must i place them under MH without fail to keep them growing ?

5) Nusiance Algae - do i need to brush the shelf regularly ??

Hope i can get some help here becuase i have fail keeping small clams once:(

<quote>
Tanks should be cleaned when algal fouling is starting to encroach on the clams (approximately every 3-6 months). Fouling is generally dependant on the nutrient level of the water. When fouling becomes heavy, clams should be removed from the tank and the mantles scrubbed thoroughly.
<unquote>

Wonder how to scrubbed mantles :confused:
 
Wow 1 inch clams are really small and tough to keep. Putting them in your main system is also going to make it tougher. Clams, unlike corals are really kind of farmers, they grow their zoox for direct digestion. At this is they dont make (or have enough surface size) to accomplish that task. So they need to absorb or digest nutrients from another source. Thus the ammonium nitrate, phyto and so on com into play. We used to just put a grow stick in with them but in a main tank that will cause lots of other issues, actually so will most of the other methods. Best bet would be to target feed them live phyto, or if possible keep them on a removable rack, them get another container, fill it shallow with tank water (so the parameters are the same) then saturate that water with phyto and a small PH, take the rack with the clams out of the tank and put it in the container and allow it to feed for about an hour or so, then back in the tank, d this a couple times a day. This way you dont pollute your water to bad.


Mike
 
^I was told by my LFS that it was not true. And that clams CAN feed themselves with light. I bought a tiny clam a while back and it has grown a lot and is well. JMHO
 
Ok then. how do they do that?


Mike,

This is something new that was stated in James Fatherree's book. I tend to think the old school feeding does more good than given credit. The little clams clear a bowl of phyto pretty quick so I would assume its doing them some good if they are consuming it. I doubt I would try a clam only 1" again.

Don
 
Ok I am still lost, what does James Fatherree say that makes them feed this way when their an inch big?

Mike
 
If I can add something here. :)

If you feed your fish/tank well, them you might not have to suppliment feed as the tridacnids will filter out the fish waste as well as other nutrient but feeding will not hurt and the clams will benifit from the food.

A few years also, I sent up five 15 gallon tanks and put in juvienile clams (1'-1.5") and the tank that we didn't feed had a larger mortality. James and I talked about this prior to his book being published but he still is under the belief that clams do not need to be fed. We all have our opinions and that is fine. With that being said, I would wage that if you were to set up a tank with NO fish and not feed anything and just put the clams under lights, in the long haul you would have a large mortality. IMO & IME

If someone want to set up a few tanks as an experiment and do it for a year, get in touch with me and I will sell you some juvenile clams at wholesale prices and you would have to keep some good records and message growth rate and mortality. :) :)
 
Damm I didn’t want to get into a big one here, but anyway here ya go. In most critters that use Zoox (corals and others) their zoox is located intracellular with in the perialgal vacuole of cells lining the digestive cavity. In giant clams the zoox is intracellular and is contained within tubules (z-tubes) that extend from the stomach to the mantle. What differs is that the clam uses haemolymph (fluid similar to blood) as a medium to acquire nutrients for the zoox and also as a means to recycle nutrients between the host and the algae (zoox).. If they don’t have a source for C the zoox (during photosynthesis) would deplete the haemolymph almost immediately of its co2. In short this makes them carbon limited.. or no licky no ticky!!!
Anyway in small clams they are still maturing their intracellular system, the zoox starts as a small concentration in the clams stomach, then as the population grows it makes its way up through the clam via these tubes to the mantle and then saturates throughout. Once this system has grown to a point that the population base is enough to support the clam....then with the combination of photosynthesis and a CARBON source the clam can be a happy clam.
So as I mentioned above, when they are tiny and thus most of the zoox are still not exposed to any form of light (stomach is a dark place) it is best to increase the carbon source and not rely on light. Once it grows to a couple of inches the light becomes important, but so does the carbon source.


Mike
 
Hey Barry you old coot:eek::D

Its impossible my friend, they cant live on light alone, their genetic make up does not allow for it. Thier are a ton of studies done on it, try googling trench 1987, norton et al 1992, klumpp 1992, david yellowlees did a great study in 1999 also. these folks are all full blown marine biologists.

Mike
 
Mike, I AGREE With you and have also read those papers. :) That is why I did those test a few years ago which prove that they needed to be fed and that can be done as well by feeding your fish, thus filtering the water.

intracellular and is contained within tubules (z-tubes) that extend from the stomach to the mantle. What differs is that the clam uses haemolymph (fluid similar to blood) as a medium to acquire nutrients for the zoox and also as a means to recycle nutrients between the host and the algae (zoox).. If they don’t have a source for C the zoox (during photosynthesis) would deplete the haemolymph almost immediately of its co2.

AGREED!

Now OLD man, when are we going to get together. It's been a while since I have been up your way. Have a all new power point pres. :) :)
 
Thanks for all the enlightening post.

Hi Barry,

Can you share what kind of lighting you use and how far away should the clams be ? Lastly, what should be the minimum photoperiod since our lighting will be too far less compare with direct sunlight ?

Hi Mike,

Thanks for all the reference and will do the reading again.

Already house them in a cage with bigger holes - water flow. Will also feed them phyto as your suggestion but can i ask your opinion as follows:
1) will i choke them since each time i feed dried plyton, they seems to be sneezing :D (previous experience) maybe due to dried ones:oops:
2) i'll close up the cage and feed them inside the cage. After that i'll release the balance for other invert to consume in my main tank.
3) do you have any idea what is agal fouling which requires mantles scrubbed thoroughly (every 3-6mths) - extract from Clam farming article.


Thanks again for all the sharing ( will try to update this thread if i fail again ):cry:
 
Now OLD man, when are we going to get together. It's been a while since I have been up your way. Have a all new power point pres.
Sounds good Barry, I will shoot you a PM.

1) will i choke them since each time i feed dried plyton, they seems to be sneezing (previous experience) maybe due to dried ones
Yea dried arent the best, see if yu can get or make real. When feeding target the food up flow, that way it will pass through thier glands.

3) do you have any idea what is agal fouling which requires mantles scrubbed thoroughly (every 3-6mths) - extract from Clam farming article.
No but NEVER scrub the Mantle, unless it is just before you shcuck them and throw them in a frying pan :D. Bo seriously dont ever do that.


mike
 
Can you share what kind of lighting you use and how far away should the clams be ? Lastly, what should be the minimum photoperiod since our lighting will be too far less compare with direct sunlight ?

Our race ways are shallow and we use 250 DE HQI, 10K and our photoperiod is 8 - 10 hrs daily.

As far as those juvenile clams go, (1") those are difficult to keep and the less you handle them the better.
 
its an old myth that clams under X" need to filter feed.

clams are not dependent on filter feeding phyto. they are primarily photosynthetic and can sustain themselves on the food provided by there zooxanthellae, through light alone. clams will extract dissolved nitrogen and phosphorus from the water and pass onto there zoox and then the zoox gives the clam sugars as food. clams will filter phyto (and bacteria and zooplankton) but when they do this all they are doing is extracting the same N & P and passing it to the zoox.

one of the arguments for feeding clams is that clams mantles are not fully developed untill they are 4" in length. this is completely false. clams mantles are fully developed and full of zoox within week of metamorphosis. another one is that clams mantles are not large enough to house enough zoox to support the clam untill its 4", false again. the size of a clams mantle is proportionate to the size of the clam through out its life.

another argument some people have for feeding phyto is that clams have a fully functioning digestive system and that if they didn't need to feed they wouldn't have this. so lets look at this. clams gills are multifunctional, they are use for respiration and capturing particulate matter. they cant get rid of the gills or they wouldn't be able to breath , clams also constantly replenish there zoox, they use their gills to do this.

the stomach is connected to the zooxanthellae tubular system (where the zoox live) the stomach passes new zoox from the gills to the ZTS , processes the sugars the zoox make (to feed the clam) and pass old, dead and un-viable zoox to the anus.

even though the digestive system isnt needed for filtering phyto, it is still used as a basic function of the clam.

if you want to feed your clams phyto, go ahead. but dont think that they will die if you dont. as long as you have strong light and N & P (fish pee and poo) in the water the clam will do just fine !

heres a few snipits from research papers to back up what i say.

enjoy


From klumpp and lucas 94

It is now established that photosynthates fixed by
symbiotic zooxanthellae are able to provide sufficient
energy to cover at least the metabolic needs of Tridacna
gigas (Fisher et al. 1985, Mingoa 1988, Klumpp
et al. 1992), T squamosa (Trench et al. 1981), T. derasa
and T. tevoroa (Klumpp & Lucas 1994

Contribution of symbiotic algae to
host respiratory requirements

The absolute amounts of carbon translocated daily by the zooxanthellae to the host (TP in Table 4) follow similar patterns of variation with size and species of clam described for P, That IS, in the smaller slze categones (0 1 to 10 g tissue weight) Trldacna gJgas has a considerable
nutritional advantage over the other 3 species, gaining 2 to 20 t~mes more energy in the form of photosynthates TP was similar in the 3 species
whlch attain 100 g In all 4 specles and size categories of clam TP was well in excess of host respiratory needs (RH in Table 4) Calculation of the percent contnbution of zooxanthellae to the host's daily carbon requirements for routine respiration (l e CZAR = (TPIRH)lOO)a, s
glven in Table 4 shows that symbiotic algae were capable of provldlng 2 to 4 times more carbon than requlred by the
host for respiration CZAR ~ncreased with clam size in all species, except in H h~ppopus, which had a comparatively
high and more constant CZAR of -340% The lowest CZAR value was
186 % in the smallest T squamosa


This study actually indicates that clams may need to acquire additional nutrients through filter feeding as they grow larger. However there zoox through photosynthesis can still provide them with at least 2x there CE needs


this study was done to determine how clams acquired there zoox and what they did with them. two sets of clams were used, one was given zoox the other was not. they were both kept in micro filtered water and not allowed to receive any particulate. the only particulate that one set received was its initial dose of symbiotic zoox. these are very tiny clams, the kind everyone says cant live through photosynthesis alone. they did just fine

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=00...B...size=LARGE

Fatherree 2006

"let's take a look at some CZAR and CZARG values for some small to clear up any possible confusion. the smallest clams offered for sale to hobbyists are usually in the 2.5 range, but far more "small clams" are in the 3.8 to 5cm range. keep this in mind when you see the CZAR and CZARG numbers going up.

Mingoa (1988) found that 1.75cm gigas specimens (smaller than what you can buy) had an average CZAR values of only 92% under bright sunlight. close, but not quite enough C/E from the zooxanthellae for basic maintenance. however that was in 1988 and Mingoa, using unpublished data from Griffiths, had chosen a translocation value of 32%. so you can see the same thing happening for these little clams. change the translocation value to 95% and the CZAR values will triple to 273%.

in addition, Fischer et al. (1985) reported a CZAR value for gigas (using a transference value of 95%) of 149% for 1cm specimen, 259% for a 1.15cm specimen, and 318% for a 1.55cm specimen. all smaller then what you can buy. then, Klumpp&Lucas (1994) found CZAR to be as high as 178% for 2.2cm derasa and 2cm tevoroas, with CZARG values of 140% for both, while data from Klumpp&Griffiths (1994) shows a CZAR of 265% and CZARG of 191% for 4.2cm gigas, 233% and 206% for 2.4cm crocea, 186% and 118% for 4.2cm squamosa, and 300% for 4cm hippopus"

so according to that they are getting C/E from photosynthesis just fine.
 
Hi Christ&Barb
Thanks so for your input. It took me quite a while to get some idea what is CZAR/G. :oops:

Well, let me update how is the progess of my 8 clams constantly and do chip in advise if possible.

1 - 2" clam. i left it under direct 250MH 6" away from light source ( 8Hrs pohtoperiod Daily)
7 - ~1" bigger ones. I left it under 2 x 39W 5" away from light source ( 13Hrs photoperiod Daily)

I will find a way to feed live phyto to the 7 clams as additional food (safety) since i'm still not sure how much light is enough to feed the clams without phyto (furthermore, i use HO tube).

some of the 7 junevile clams are moving themself every night after lights off (i suppose the cage is slightly too small giving them stress that their location is not best) Will be clearing some SPS (under MH) to give room for the clams.

Will try to load picture
 
hey wonder

if clams are slowly acclimated to strong light they can take just about as much as you can through at them. i have 2- 1 1/2" maximas and a 3+-" derasa directly under a MH, 2" under the water and the light is about 6" above the water and they are all showing very good growth without feeding. if you want to add phyto for the clams great, but i would just add the phyto to the whole tank. clams can and will filter particulate from the water but they dont feed in big gulps, they slowly filter all day long. if you put them in a high concentration "soup" of phyto they will clear the water and they may use some but most of the phyto can not be used, they simply cant process that large flux of food all at once. the large majority of the phyto will be rejected as pseudofeces.
 
hey wonder

if clams are slowly acclimated to strong light they can take just about as much as you can through at them. i have 2- 1 1/2" maximas and a 3+-" derasa directly under a MH, 2" under the water and the light is about 6" above the water and they are all showing very good growth without feeding. if you want to add phyto for the clams great, but i would just add the phyto to the whole tank. clams can and will filter particulate from the water but they dont feed in big gulps, they slowly filter all day long. if you put them in a high concentration "soup" of phyto they will clear the water and they may use some but most of the phyto can not be used, they simply cant process that large flux of food all at once. the large majority of the phyto will be rejected as pseudofeces.

Thanks again. I was rather worry as well that too much light will cause harm because some of my SPS do show bleaching sign when i increase my 6 x T5(HO) to 14 Hrs recently and have to cut back to 12Hrs. I increase 2 x T5 to 13Hr just for the clams base on SPS experience:) With your assurance, i can just focus keeping track their growth and i do agree that choking the clams isn't a good idea.

I will try dosing 1ml per hrs (something like this) ;) Honestly, i do not like life phyto purchase from LFS becuase there is always some doubts if they are still healthy or not :doubt: Anyway, will spend my weekend doing the phyto search.

( I have lots of dired phyto by many brands. Tropic Marin, etc ) do you think clams will take dried ones from Tropic marin ? reference to below link
http://www.qualitymarineusa.com/article.asp?page=company&id=67E82EAE-005A-4A2F-94A2-C384632308CD
 
Last edited:
live foods are always going to be better then dead. a fairly good test for live phyto is to smell it, if it smells like the sea then its good, if it stinks then i would pass. you might also want to contact a local University and see if they have live phyto for you
 

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