need help---Which auto top off system works best

[Scooterman]

Well I'm sure glad I had the back-up today because I would have about 25 gallons of water in my sump & stand right now, that would really suk! Fact is this sensor was sealed but the seal was broken & I should of siliconed it but regardless in time I will replace all of them with optical sensors. Holygral a second switch is used as a fail safe, if the main ATO switch fails like mine it could just keep pumping water into the sump, well the back-up worked because it is a second switch wired to shut off when the level reaches it, which it is mounted slightly higher than the ATO switch, this should help prevent any farther water from going on top the sump & flooding the tank, stand etc. I evap about 25 gallons a week so I need a lot of storage ro/di.

 

[Holygral]

I understand the back up switch principle, I don't understand how to put in a opticial sensor to use as a back up switch. Would I need to change out to a different set up than the pressure switch that I now have or modify what I got?

Thanks!

 

[DonW]

The thing with ato systems is, we install them then we get lazy its human nature to trust the device after it been running for awhile. Each system is different but any sort of sensor be it optical or magnetic float can serve as a back up.
Since each system is different we have to look at each side of a failure. Holygral, will only end up with a diluted tank. The damage that does will depend on whats living in the tank. Now if there were kalk in the ato the damage would be terrible irregardless. Some sumps are small and even though they may hold the extra three gallons it may be enough extra water height to cause the skimmer to flood. Now look at the other side, what if the ato never turns on. We have learned to trust the device so no big deal to leave town and let it do its thing. Some return areas are small so when it fails to turn on and you did not get the 3 gallons. By the end of the week the return pump is sucking air and the tank gets no circulation.

I guess what I'm saying when deciding on a ato design. Understand that automation makes person lazy and trusting. Think about the ways it can fail and what happens to your individual system when it happens. Test the system, see for yourself how low the sump can go and how long it take for it to get to low. If it happens quickly then design a feature to counter act that. If one extra gallon is going to cause the skimmer to overflow then make sure that a close backup is designed into the system. Just try different things, see what will happen then design the system around those results. There is no such thing as universal.

Don

 

[DonW]

I understand the back up switch principle, I don't understand how to put in a opticial sensor to use as a back up switch. Would I need to change out to a different set up than the pressure switch that I now have or modify what I got?

Thanks!

Your system can have a back-up switch. I'd probably go with a dry float system. Of course you will have to open up the box and wire it up. Or just add on to the existing system.

Don

 

[Scooterman]

I called Oceanaus & they are sending me some replacement switches free, that is cool with me, It will buy me some time until I can modify the system.

 

[theJ]

So I just came across a needle valve (thanks Brent), which should help with flooding the sump with kalk even if the switch fails. That should give a couple days to recognize if the switch gets stuck 'on' and the water level is above my 'fill line' on the sump. Wont help for going dry, but I haven't ran into that situation yet, so far the only time it runs 'dry' is if I forget to fill the ATO.

 

[DonW]

So I just came across a needle valve (thanks Brent), which should help with flooding the sump with kalk even if the switch fails. That should give a couple days to recognize if the switch gets stuck 'on' and the water level is above my 'fill line' on the sump. Wont help for going dry, but I haven't ran into that situation yet, so far the only time it runs 'dry' is if I forget to fill the ATO.

If your talking about a float valve, they should not be used with kalk. If you use kalk with a float valve youll be in the same situation overnight. Overnight is how long it takes kalk to crud up a float valve.

Don

 

[theJ]

no sir, a needle valve..

 

[DonW]

no sir, a needle valve..

So your just slowing the flow?

Don

 

[theJ]

yea, for now. I need to get dosing, doing it by hand is just making things worse. I'll be addressing the float switch soon, but the needle valve will let me slow the ato to a point that if it fails, I can catch it in time. I am constantly observing the sump so I can tell if the ato is running when it shouldn't, the needle valve just gives me time to notice before the ato dumps a full load into the tank. With the valve applied, it would take more than a day to drain the ato, where now it can dump 6g of fresh water in just a few minutes.