new and acquiring good equipment

[jblincoe]

Ok so here it goes.

I am new to the whole reef system thing. I am really excited and have been anxiously awaiting the moment that i can actually get this thing up and running. I found a nice near perfect 95 gal tall aquarium, i believe it is an allglass for free< i have tested it thoroughly and there are no leaks so that's a plus. So the ball was rolling. My dad always had fish systems set up when i was young so i thought i new what i was getting into--mistake number one right. I paniced when i started adding up all of the cost of equipment not to say anything for live rock, inverts., and livestock. I have an awesome fish store a few blocks from my place so i have been hanging in there just to get to know them as i think they will get most of my business. Great people and awesome setups! so anyway i started telling the owner what i was planning and he started asking me what i was thinking--he said "why make it so complicated", he then took me around and started showing me the setups that he has in the shop around the same size as mine. he said they are all running on nothing but protein skimmers. I was dumfounded and still cannot believe it. a complete system running on nothing but live rock and protien skimming? is this possible? They are using bakpak skimmers by cpr and i picked one up to start the accumulation of what i need. alright so has anyone heard of this? is this just the shops way of getting rid of the nubies?

he did say that they empty the skimmer cup everyday and do regular topoffs, but he said other than that they are pretty simple to care for.

 

[Jan]

Hi there and welcome

I can't believe I'm going to answer this question but it's like, "Oh!! I can answer this question!!!" waving hands, "pick me!"

What the person was describing to you is the classic Berlin system of using live rock to filter nutrients in the water (changing wastes from toxic to non-toxic) plus the protein skimmer to reduce the amount of raw wastes in the water. It's really true that you can run systems with just this, plus water changes of course.

It depends on what you want to do with your tank, what kind of inhabitants etc. that you want. You can research and see what others are doing then decide what inhabitants you want. That will determine how high tech you want to go, plus how much hands-on work you want to do. The less testing/dosing you want to do, the more automated you may want to go (to a point anyway as automation carries its own overhead).

And that's all I have to say about that...

 

[Meche]

I'm not sure that backpack skimmer is going to cut it on a stocked 95gal, but yes, Jan is right.

I personally like to also run carbon to filter out possible chemical contaminates. Some corals like to do battle with chemicals that can accumulate quickly in an aquarium.

Good luck on your set-up and welcome to RF!

Also, if a store (fish or any other) were to "get rid" of noobs; they, themselves, are noobs.

 

[bighitrider45]

also u prolly want powerheads...if that wasnt already stated

 

[Sherman]

It's really true. That's how I run my aquarium. Live rock and skimmer. I also use carbon filtration, to "polish" the water. Carbon helps pull out organics, and other stuff that discolors the water. But before I start up too many new topics.. yep, Rock and skimmer for me. And LOTS of flow. LOTS.

 

[jblincoe]

Thanks all, my research has pretty much confirmed everything you all are saying but coming from a background of fish only tanks with decorative (dead corals) it is still really hard for me to bewlieve in a good way. At this point i am planning on two protien skimmers (bakpaks seem to be a good option as they add substantially to the flow of the tank) and an additional highflow powerhead aimed down to reach the lower portions of the tank. There is also some questions about this type of system that are hard to get clear answers UG filter or no ug filter--i have heard a thick layer of crushed coral could produce pockets of gas that can cause problems. would this be fixed by plenty of sand stirring inverts? thanks all this site is going to help a lot i can feel it.

 

[chris&barb]

thats pretty much how i run my system also. i have had more tec equipment but im back to basic now. by the way sounds like you have a great LFS to lean on. all to often the LFS's are the ones that tell you "you got to have this & that"

 

[jblincoe]

yeah i guess they know what they are doing, they have been in business a long time and their setups are amazing. I am rolling on with this setup then. patience patience patience. i have to complete the work on the stand i am building along with aquiring lighting setups then i can finally start the cycling of the tank. Maybe i should get my live rock and start curing it in a trash can while i do the stand--heater, powerhead, live rock, reef crystals, nose plugs---am i missing anything for this process?

 

[Meche]

Maybe i should get my live rock and start curing it in a trash can while i do the stand

Sounds good to me.

When Sherman said "LOTS of flow", boy did he mean it. :lol: Depending on your livestock's needs some people use the 10x-20x turnover ratio (water-flow per hour vs. tank size). Some people use no sand (bare bottom) and are therefore able to crank that up to 100x or more!

I'm not saying you need to go crazy but you may want to think about multiple powerheads, or a Koralia/Tunze (nano) Stream/Vortec type powerhead (or two).

 

[Sherman]

I run 53x turnover WITH sand, actually, and get away with it. Starting around 30x would be my recommendation. At 95g, that's 2,850gph total, so prepare for that.

The bacpac skimmer.. you already have it, I guess. They're sort of the "Kia or Hyundai" of skimmers, and you'll find almost every reference to them to be in laughter AT them. Seriously underperforming skimmer, even on a small tank. However, you already have it, it's better than nothing, but barely. The latest trend is in "Needle wheel" skimmers, and getting one rated for a few times your tank's cpacity.

 

[Krish]

Welcome to RF!! Seems like you've gotten great feedback already I've also ran all of my tanks on great husbandry, protein skimming and live rock for filtration. I am one of those people Brett (Meche) spoke about that ran 100x turnover rate on a bare bottom tank that worked out well for me, but it is not a must. Your main goal with flow is to catch every spot in your tank sufficient flow so that no place is lacking to allow detritus and waste to settle, rott and degrade water quality. Once you keep all in suspension for your corals to use up as a food source or your skimmer to pick up, or to be mechanically removed, then you will be well on your way! As already suggested, CPR skimmers aren't top on people's lists when going out to buy a skimmer, however many people do run them with great success. It all depends on your bio-load and how well you take care of your tank in terms of not over feeding and doing your regular water changes. In any event, as they say with this hobby..."There are more than one way to skin a cat" so you have to go with works best for you. Good luck with the project and make sure to post some photos of your progress

 

[jblincoe]

Thanks everyone, i have ordered two top of the line tunze powerheads i figure they ought to last a long time so worth the investment, plus i should be able to devote the cheapy i already have to stiring my trashcan full of rock i will be getting. I am planning on ordering about 100 lbs of fiji Live rock and can get a really good base rock from my lfs. What is everyones opinion of this plan. I love having people to bounce my ideas off of. Do i cure the base rock with the live rock to get the ball rolling on placing some life in the "dead" rock? or should i wait until a lot of the unfriendly tag alongs get cleaned away

 

[Meche]

That sounds like a great plan and nice pick-up on the Tunzes.

 

[booie]

when you are talking turnover are you talking total? i.e. overflow to sump and powerhead flow too? or just overflow to sump?

 

[Sherman]

Actually, when I mentioned 53x turnover, that's in the tank, with powerheads. Through the sump will be a LOT lower.

 

[Meche]

The water loop that circulates through the sump is called an open loop. Most people try to match that flow rate to their skimmers (300-500gph for most).

Sherman, Krish, and I were refering to the flow in the tank that "stirs things up". This may be achieved with any combination of power heads, closed loops, or open loops.

 

[booie]

thanks for the info, i had a reef tank about 20 years ago and am just know hopping back in. i drove to N.C. from new hampshire, where i bought a 150 gal tank stocked with frogspawn hammers shrooms and about 9 fish. this all happened in feb.......we lost NOTHING, everything made the 14 hour drive and were completly open two days later

 

[Damsel13]

oooooohhhh well I am glad someone asked that question. I have been wondering that for a long time but was too afraid to ask!
:eek2: :badgrin: :lol: :badgrin:

P.S. I have a BacPak skimmer and yes it is better than nothing! Um there is a way to make it work a little better. Help someone I don't have that link right now...

 

[jblincoe]

i assume you are talking about substituting a Maxi-Jet with a venturi air kit for the stock rio? i have read that and plan to make that upgrade in the near future, the rio will come in handy for general tank maitenance or a quarantine tank later.

 

[jblincoe]

UG filter or no ug filter--i have heard a thick layer of crushed coral could produce pockets of gas that can cause problems. would this be fixed by plenty of sand stirring inverts?QUOTE]

still wasn't sure on this and most of the research i have done says no Undergravel needed. but most are unclear about kind of substrate, thickness, etc. so what is everybody doing in their setups as far as substrate?

i do like the look of crushed coral as opposed to sand (and i can picture sand stirring up in the water with the amount of flow most are suggesting) but ultimately i am looking for the most easy to maintain and the best for the aquariums ecosystem.