New Coral Food - WOW

[MCary]

I have no problem with you shouting the benefits of your product from the rooftops. I respect and expect that. It is great that you responded to inquiries.

I have seen Mucho's TOTM. But his post sounded like an advertisement. As a well respected zoo expert I would encourage him to be a spokesman for my product. If that is the case, I respect that too. But I would expect him to identify himself as such.

I think before I purchase this product it is fair for me to ask this question. An unsolicited endorsement of this product makes a strong statement. A solicited one, no so much.

Mike

 

[mojoreef]

I dont think it really matters if he was a shill or not, or if a sponcer comes in to answer questions about their product, or if a member questions the products make up. We are all here to learn about the hobby and the food we feed is an important one. Open discussion is always welcome.


Mike

 

[Coral Frenzy]

Just to clear things up, Mucho Reef has no link to us at all.
We are happy that he likes our product and we are thankful that he made our product more aware to the public.

DIYReef recommended that we become sponsors on here, because quite a few RF members bought Coral Frenzy and it felt right to support those who support us.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Wow, absolutely amazing. I belong to a lot of boards and I have been away due to it being a very busy time of the year for me personally. I've been very sick recently as well as trying to make some major modifications on my tank. I arrived home today and I had 3 phone calls and several emails regarding this thread. This is a thread that I had completely forgotten about as I haven't visited RF in several weeks, maybe months. Now I'm a very big fan of keeping the peace and I would never, in anyway form or fashion do anything remotely to disrespect this site, its owners, mods and members.

MCary, I don't know you and we have never met, yet I am totally shocked that you would make such a blatant and boldface accusation and attack against me. I would never do such a thing to you. I am in no way associated with the company in question, I'm no Zoanthid expert and my post was not a direct advertisement. I have spoken of so many products that I have tried and I have moved swiftly to share that and any other important information that promotes this hobby.

I have never visited nor heard of www.brandx.com in my life. I posted the exact same thread on many sites as I have done in the past with most of what I post. I find your accusations against me extremely offensive. Sir you have boldly and public ally labeled me as a liar. As I said before, I would never make such a statement in a public forum without proof. Proof of which you don't have my friend because it doesn't exist. If you want to call be a shill, then allow me to list just a few of the products, companies and people that I am a shill for. DT's Oyster Eggs, Bionic A & B, ESV Spray Dried Marine Phyto Plankton, Special Blend, Hamilton, XM, Premium Aquatics, DIYREEF.com, Anthony Calfo and Steven Pro to name just a few. This is a very short list of the many products, people and companies I have spoken of on the net.

Keep in mind sir that a lot of newbies are watching. Blatant attacks such as this is but one of the many reasons a lot of reefers only look, but never reply. Mods, please do not lock or delete this thread. Allow it to serve as a reminder of what can happen when careless attacks are made openly.

Sir, I hope I have answered all of your questions. You called me a liar and God knows the damage you might have caused doing so. You made a public accusation, I responded truthfully and factually. I think now you owe me a public apology. However if you choose not to, I will not attack you public ally or privately my friend. And I will not hold a grudge against you sir. I thank those of you who have supported me. My apologies to RF for causing such an uproar.


Warm regards, Mucho Reef

PS. It is my hope that one day we can have such fervent discussions on reefing instead of personal attacks such as this. I respect all of you and I only hope you can weigh my words and know that I would never compromise my integrity. I have a fever and I need to get back in bed.

Safe reefing everyone, Mooch

 

[MtnDewMan]

We are all about open discussion here, not about attacks. I hope this thread can get back on track to it's original intent. I think it has been determined that the starter of this thread was not doing it for commercial reasons but for informational gain. That's what this hobby is all about. Heck I have posted the same messages on multiple boards in the past, it is a common practice to get mass visibility to get a response. There is never a need to make accusations and attacks, not conducive to good discussion behaving that way for sure.

So that all being said, there is no harm ... let's all take a deep breath ... discuss the topic from an informational gathering perspective and move on like a good discussion group of people I know we all are

 

[jlehigh]

Do you (does anyone) know the average paticulate size of this food once saturated in seawater? I know the various coral types are restricted to what they can eat by their mouth size and knowing about how large the food particles are may help in matching it as a food source to the various coral types.

 

[Coral Frenzy]

Brodie,

In Rob Toonens report initially he voices his concern about the nutrition of spray dried phyto.He specifically is targeting ESVs spray dried phyto stating "1) it is actually not a phytoplankton product, but rather a weird species that grows heterotrophically and is more-or-less a yeast; 2) the drying process is known to affect nutrition in other marine algae, and there is every reason to suspect that the same is true of this spray dried phyto". Thats all fine and dandy. It has nothing to do with our product. Our phytoplanktons are all from water.In his report found here http://www.reefs.org/library/article/r_toonen15.html he has an update at the end. "My initial concerns over the nutritional changes involved in drying these plankton seems to have been unfounded, and a shrimp hatchery has recently reported that larval survival increased to 42% using it at 70 percent replacement level, compared with 23 percent survival using traditional feeds" If you continue reading further he states "Together with my tests, these results can be easily interpreted as an issue of particle size, and the fact that advanced stage shrimp larvae do perfectly well on the food is not surprising given the particle size obtained by mixing this product" this was in response to the early stages doing poorly.Not because of nutrition but because of particle size.

Here in Sanjays report http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/s/b/sbj4/aquarium/reeffood/feeding.htm this is what he has to say about spraydried phyto also specifically ESVs. ESV (www.esvco.com) sells a spray dried phytoplankton product, as another solution to addressing the addition of phytoplantkton to reef aquariums in an easy manner. The spray dried phytoplankton is intended for use as food for corals and other invertebrates, fish food, larval fish and invertebrate food, and an enrichment food for Artemia and rotifer culture. The spray dried product has the advantage of being convenient to use, does not require storage in the refrigerator and has a long shelf life. The disadvantages are that spray drying may impact some of the chemicals in the phytoplankton and reduce their nutritional value. He uses the word may. That has no data to back it up. Its just carelessly thrown out there. I "may" win the lotto tomorrow.

Cnidarianreefs well I cant find specifically where he mentions that but that could be because he didnt reach the balance for his tank. Every tank is different as far as how it assimilates food and nutrients.

Freeze dried vs. spray dried. Freeze dried is probably going to be more gentler on the cells. But to say spray drying wipes out all nutrional value is really stretching it since there really is no scientific data out there proving it. Just 1 report and an article. Hardly enough to base anything on. Does spray drying take away some nutrients. Yes. So does baking and freeze drying. Just look at the food we eat and how its prepared. When you boil veggies it breaks down alot but we still gain nutrition from it. Its not like its complete empty calories. The same applies for spraydrying.

"Take a pinch of it and put it in a tablespoon of water and check the phosphate levels in that small amount of water". I hate this test. It is very inaccurate. Remember phosphates are being measured in ppm. The common unit mg/liter is equal to ppm. So the amount you had in your pinch in that tablespoon extrapolate that to a full liter of water and test it.So you would probably have to put a few grams of the product which is alot to achieve the same phosphate levels. Much more than what people would be putting in their tank at one time. If you take a small volume of something and put alot of something else in it its going to have a high concentration. Thats simple chemistry. All food products WILL have phosphates. Its a fact.

Hopefully this has answered and cleared up some questions. It actually was fun doing this.

 

[NaH2O]

Thanks for getting the thread back on track everyone. It was mentioned about nutritional loss from the spray drying process. I know mojo has already asked for more info on this. But, what I would like to know first is (going to get basic here)...what nutrition do you get from phytoplankton? Then, it might be easier to discuss what or how the nutrition loss occurs.

Mucho Reef - Get well soon!

 

[mojoreef]

Great post Coral frenzy!! Now we are doing it the RF way!

I think its kind of funny on the Phosphate thing in any kind of Phyto product, lol thats what it is!! that and ammonium are what make phytoplankton!!, its also the reason some critters eat it, they are looking to bind the Phosphate and Nitrogen to their matrix for growth.


Mike

 

[NaH2O]

I think its kind of funny on the Phosphate thing in any kind of Phyto product, lol thats what it is!! that and ammonium are what make phytoplankton!!, its also the reason some critters eat it, they are looking to bind the Phosphate and Nitrogen to their matrix for growth.


Mike

So then does it really matter what form it is in? The critters that will use it don't care if it is "live phyto" or spray dried?

 

[mojoreef]

The live or dead debate has to do with the purity concentration of the product itself. Live of coarse is going to have alot more viable nutrients and other products then a dead product. So the critter will need more of the dead product to get an equal ammount of the live one.
As per will critters use it if it is in either form?? probibly most will based on if the size is correct for them to eat and/or digest. If they pass it by bacteria will always cleanup the mess. But again we are talking about phyto here so their is a very small amount of critters that actaully use it.


Mike

 

[Coral Frenzy]

Yes phytoplankton is used more as a food to feed the critters in your tank that in turn feed your corals as most do not eat it directly.

Phytoplanktons nutrition is amino acids, vitamins, and minerals just like any other food.

 

[My2heartboys]

I dont think it really matters if he was a shill or not, or if a sponcer comes in to answer questions about their product, or if a member questions the products make up. We are all here to learn about the hobby and the food we feed is an important one. Open discussion is always welcome.


Mike

Mike, I have seen a great feeding response in my tank with both foods. My solution---alternate between the two of them for feeding.

Anne

 

[Coral Frenzy]

We will have that information available in the next couple of weeks once we get the results back from the lab along with nutritional analysis.

Do you (does anyone) know the average paticulate size of this food once saturated in seawater? I know the various coral types are restricted to what they can eat by their mouth size and knowing about how large the food particles are may help in matching it as a food source to the various coral types.

 

[mojoreef]

Anne I wouldnt dought it. It does not take much to stimulate a mechanical or chemical repsonce in corals. In the case of corals feeding the real key is going to be particle size to begin with. The particle has to be the correct size in order for the coral to take it in, example you may like to eat steak but if I put a cow on the table your not going to get very far . From their it goes to if the food is something the coral wants or can digest and use it contents.
In corals a feeding cycle starts from the moment of chemical or mechanical responce. As in once it is stimulated, it will go through its full feeding cycle (from slime/polyp extension to wasteing) regardless of if it gets anything at all.


Mike

 

[gman0526]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but it was my understanding that "dead" phyto tends to "clump" together thus making it harder for some filter feeders to digest.