New set up

[pdhenderson]

I just got a 55 gallon-short ( 36 x 19) and have a 20 gallon I would like to use as a sump.
My plans are as follows.
Dual 1.5" bulkheads on rear panes ( "s down from corners)
Feeding into sump, first chamber will hold Skimmer ( Have not decided if skimmer will be directly fed from DT) Under and over baffles.
Contimplating including fuge in middle, then feeding into return chamber
Return pump would be around 500 gph
Over tank wall return.

?'s
1. Would the 20 gallon be enough to hold the volume of water?
2.Would this pump rating give me WFS?
3 Any ideas are welcome

 

[noteworthy]

The 20 is big enough as far as water volume.. I believe 1/5th is the lowest to go on water volume sump to display. I had a 10 gallon with a 55 display and it was pointless.. but it was also all I could fit under a walmart particle board stand.


As far as the pump it depends on the brand. Some will push more head than others. A 500 gph pump will not flow 500 gph back into the main display. It will transfer less because it is going uphill into the main tank. A 1.25" drain will go about 700 GPH so if you ran dual 1.5" drains you would get atleast a flow of 1400 or more. You would need a pump that pushes 1200-1300 gph at 4' head.

Most people from what I understand say you dont need to run all your flow through the sump.. 10x turnover is enough. For a reef system you need 20x flow. 1400 drain is about 25x turnover. I really think you just need one overflow on that tank. One overflow at 700 gph would put you around 12x turnover.. use a mag 9 pump for about the right amount of return after factoring in head loss. It might a bit much but you could tee off the return and have some of it flow back into the sump if it is too fast for the overflow. Matching the drain and return will help in keeping the noise down. That and something like a durso standpipe with an airvalve.

I recommend you put a tee behind the overflow and have a pipe go up for air to escape and not get flushed into the sump.

Only large tanks need two overflows. Something like a 125 gallon... 1400 would be acceptable.


Read this to explain more:
http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/beginnerscorner/a/aa081399.htm

 

[pdhenderson]

Thanks
I was somewhat concerned about using 2 , as I was recently told
What you are suggesting is much more what I would like to do.
I speculated that the tank would overwhelm the sump.

 

[noteworthy]

Yeah a lot of movement. I'd go with just one overflow bulkhead.. plug the other.. or just use it for a return. A larger tank if you could afford it couldn't hurt. I certainly wouldn't go with anything smaller than a 20. you could even put a 10 gallon beside the 20 and put diy overflow with pvc from tank to tank. Make the 10 gallon a refugium.. 20 for return/heaters/skimmer if you want one down below.

DIY overflow and 10 tank would be about 25 bucks in all.


for the overflow just use 1" pvc for $5 - and 6 elbows for $7 So about $22 dollars

 

[pdhenderson]

How does this sound
1 1.5" bulkhead drains to sump ( Seperates in to two, feeding skimmer,feeding sump)
As water passes through sump and fuge, moves onto pump ( gph around 700 correct?) ( Valve and Tee connected to control flow and flooding) then up to 1.5" bulkhead returning into DT or over wall creating surge ( As this will be in dirrect current of PHeads)

 

[pdhenderson]

Yeah a lot of movement. I'd go with just one overflow bulkhead.. plug the other.. or just use it for a return. A larger tank if you could afford it couldn't hurt. I certainly wouldn't go with anything smaller than a 20. you could even put a 10 gallon beside the 20 and put diy overflow with pvc from tank to tank. Make the 10 gallon a refugium.. 20 for return/heaters/skimmer if you want one down below.

DIY overflow and 10 tank would be about 30 bucks in all.

$30? US Im in Canada, remeber our Taxes!! ( $10.40 for a pack of cigs!!!)

I was thinking about this. Use the 20 as a fuge, and I found a guy on Kjiji.com who has lots of acrylic that i could use to build a tall sump!!

I do not want to use overflows, and I have not got the tank drilled yet as i am still in planning, and quit my job yesterday!


However I do have on hand a 12.5 gallon hex. think I could incorporate that into the plan?

 

[pdhenderson]

for the overflow just use 1" pvc for $5 - and 6 elbows for $7 So about $22 dollars

details, please

 

[noteworthy]

How about this:

 

[noteworthy]

The siphon is started by having water in the section of pipe that is seperated by baffles on the right side. and having the refugium with water to go into the pipe on that side.

The air check valve is connected to a venturi or sucked on by yourself to prime it... once the elbow in the refugium and the outlet in the sump or submerged they will stay submerged and always primed.. will not lose suction. Make sure you pvc cement tho or it will lose suction.



http://www.3reef.com/forums/i-made/diy-pvc-overflow-cant-keep-up-36405-2.html

 

[pdhenderson]

very similar to what I was thinking
I cannot upload the image so I have to explain it
Water leaves via bulkhead , connecting to a tee , feeds sump and skimmer
under/over baffles, with middle sec. fuge, again over/under baffles to pump area, from pump, line is connected to control valve regulating flow, water enters back into system over back wall of tank.
Simple and cheaper/.

Question I have, Why would I put the fuge on the other side of the sump with the pump in the middle, is this to keep flow at a minimum?
I am a noob when it comes to refugiums, as the last sump I had was purchased from a friend that was on a FOWLR.
I intend to create a reef system with this and taking my sweet time.

 

[noteworthy]

Yeah the only reason I can think of is to lower the flow that hits the fuge. I know what you're saying about the fuge in the center. I thought about doing it too.. I've seen it both ways. Food for thought is putting a space in the baffles to lower media into.. or eggcrate or something to put floss on.. etc. I need to buy some socks myself.

 

[pdhenderson]

That was my original plan.
When the water comes down, one will enter into skimmer and the other will through a sock

 

[pdhenderson]

I also just got a part time job at a big box hardware store yesterday
so Im looking forward to discounts!!!

 

[DonW]

You dont need near that much flow through the sump. In fact it will lessen the contact time with the equipment that is used in the sump. Tank to sump circulation has nothing to do with flow. I'd shoot for 250gph max through a 20g sump for the tank to sump circulation and somewhere around 80 to 100 time turnover for in tank flow if this is going to be bare bottom less if you plan to have sand. A sump is to hold equipment and keep it out of site the added water volume is just a bonus.

Don

 

[pdhenderson]

250? really?
Just read up on it, you are right, more time in the tank increases exchange rates. flipping the water more than 10 times is over kill, much like a skimmer more contact time the better.
"advance aquarists online magazine"

I plan on keeping a shallow bed in the DT and a dsb in the fuge

Going with a 250 gph sets my mind at ease alittle , but will this still create enough flow returning back into the DT.
So many variables. ?!?
Another question, what would be the output of a 1.5" bulkhead draining into the sump, I have heard different answers.As above its stated at 700gph, that would be overkill with a 250gph pump
I will explain my situation, as this tank progresses and matures I plan on keeping leathers softies, and eventually some Acro's when I discover that the tank and my husbandry is at optimum.

I have to say though, that I have found a lot of very intelligent answers on this forum, quite impressed.

 

[DonW]

250? really?
Just read up on it, you are right, more time in the tank increases exchange rates. flipping the water more than 10 times is over kill, much like a skimmer more contact time the better.
"advance aquarists online magazine"

I plan on keeping a shallow bed in the DT and a dsb in the fuge

Going with a 250 gph sets my mind at ease alittle , but will this still create enough flow returning back into the DT.
So many variables. ?!?
Another question, what would be the output of a 1.5" bulkhead draining into the sump, I have heard different answers.
I will explain my situation, as this tank progresses and matures I plan on keeping leathers softies, and eventually some Acro's when I discover that the tank and my husbandry is at optimum.

I have to say though, that I have found a lot of very intelligent answers on this forum, quite impressed.

A single 1.5" bulkhead is fine. I would not put a overflow in a tank that small I would just use a up turned elbow with a intake screen, if you plan on drilling the tank.
The 250 gph is just for the equipment in the sump. You add internal flow by either powerheads or a closed loop.
IMO a 20g is way to small to be anything but a equipment holder. By the time you stuff, a decent skimmer and return pump there is not any room left for a refugium of any useful size.

Don

 

[pdhenderson]

Alright then, Im going to add a fuge beside the tank then.
I like noteworthy's idea of plumbing the fuge beside the sump, agree?

 

[DonW]

Alright then, Im going to add a fuge beside the tank then.
I like noteworthy's idea of plumbing the fuge beside the sump, agree?

I'm not a refugium fan so really the wrong person to ask. If I were going to do one it would be at least half the size of my tank with just rolling chaeto.

Don

 

[pdhenderson]

Thanks for all your help today, Im going to put it to good use and go start planning now

 

[noteworthy]

Yeah Don has some good points. I 'm probably going to back off and do 600 gph through my overflow on my 125 gallon. I currently have two closed loops that are 'submerged.. but I just need to do a little work to hang them outside the tank like before.

If you could get a larger tank that would be great. The siphon thing really wouldnt be an issue for you. 20 gallon fuge would be nice. I'm going to use about 20 gallons of my 55 as a fuge.