New Skimmer

[ldrhawke]

Mike,

Jump in on this and correct me if I am wrong.

I added an air stone yesterday as a boost to my existing system....the air was in addition to what it all ready had from the exisitng ejector and pinwheel pump. The extra air didn't make any significant improvement. In fact I had to lower the liquid level to keep the skimmate from being too wet.

On my unit, which is only 42" high, I would be a little concerned about converting to only air. I am afraid a straight compressed air skimmer system may need to be tall to help dry out all the foam it produces before going into the cup. I am concerned I may only make a lot of dilute tea colored skimmate using a lot of fine bubbles on a short skimmer. Which I can already do my raising the liquid level.

Does anyone run a short compressed air skimmer?

Comments.....

 

[mojoreef]

I am not sure Idrhawke. the shrter the skimmer the less it can handle water capacity wise no?? If you have more bubbles its giving you more surface area to capture protiens et el. Lowering the water level would result in a more concentrated protien mass on the bubble.
Maybe I am wrong but bubbles are bubbles as long as they are very fine. If you have a neddle wheel or whatever pushing foam up 3 inches it would mean that the skimmate would less concentrated then if it went farther up a tube. I dont think it would matter what system was used to do it (even air). The fact you can lower the water level would mean you should realize a more concentrated skimmate. Well at least that is the way I am looking at it.
For me my skimmate is the standard chunky mass (a little darker then the standard brown) the balance is a liquid, not tea in color, more of a coffie color. I cant see more then an 2 inches into the bucket. LOL and thats the last time I touch my skimmate for anyone, hehehe

Mike

 

[edgerat]

I actually prefer a wet skimmate because it cuts down on the mess in the cup and on the riser. But thats me.

 

[Stircrazy]

I figure I'll use my 5HP compressor to do some testing,

Zeph

I am not sure if you would want to use those stones after using a normal air compressor if it has oil in the compressor as they all have a little carryover.

Steve

 

[reeffan]

I am not sure if you would want to use those stones after using a normal air compressor if it has oil in the compressor as they all have a little carryover.

Steve

Hmmmm, that would be a problem :?: . The airstones do need clean air or else it will clog the stones.

reeffan

 

[edgerat]

but not if you are using a dedicated air pump

 

[reeffan]

lol...I guess i better stick with the airpump.

oh yeah, i went with the cheaper brand pump as well.

reeffan

 

[RedEyeReef]

Well I broke down and ordered some 6"x1.5" air-stones from Aquatic Ecosystems yesterday. I figure I'll use my 5HP compressor to do some testing, and measure the PSI and flow rate going though them for the best performance, then order the pump that would work best.

Thanks for your help Mike-

Zeph

I can't wait to see that test. Did you get the Ultra Fine?

 

[Zephrant]

Good point on the oil- I guess I'll either install a multi-stage oil separation filter (like they use for car painting), or get the real pump earlier than I had planned. I would have uses for both devices, so maybe I'll just get both.

I ordered the same ones that Mike is running I think.

Thanks-

Zeph

 

[rufio173]

Hey Brent,

Let us know how the testing goes. I'm definitely interested in the results.

Peace,
John H.

 

[rufio173]

Hey Mike,

Got a quick question because I want to clarify a few things. You mentioned that you got the ultra fine pore diffuser...

Now I have the 2005 aquaticeco master catalog and I only see a fine pore diffuser and a medium pore diffuser. The pics you have look like either of the two types. It's definitely not the ultra fine bubble diffuser, which looks completely different. I can't find the diffuser that you named anywhere in the catalog.

Now, you mentioned that bubble size on your diffuser ranged between 100 and 150 microns. The fine-pore diffusers have a max pore size of 80 microns and a nominal particle retention of 25 microns. The medium pore diffusers have a max pore size of 140 microns with a nominal particle retention of 50 microns. So, which one did you get... the ultra fine pore diffuser or the medium pore diffuser? If you got the ultra fine pore diffuser, then you'll want to use an airfilter that filters out particles larger than 25 microns and if you got the medium pore diffusers, you'll want to get a filter that filters out particles larger than 50 microns.

Also, the catalog states that "In clean, cold, soft water, cleaning may only be necessary every 2 or 3 years. In very hard water or water high in organics, it could be necessary as often as every 2 months." Also "clogging is most often due to calcium carbonate deposits (this plugging is prevalent in hard water and salt water)"

I'm just trying to point out that we are using these things in salt water laden with a fairly high organic load, where we keep calcium carbonate at very high levels.

Now, I definitely think this system is going to work great, but I would just get a pair of back up stones that you could just switch on and off whenever you do find that you need to clean the stones. They also mentioned that some people have been using the same stones for years, but not sure if this was in fresh, cold water.

Also, the service life for these stones at a ph below 8.0 is unlimited... so, maybe the service life around a pH of 8.3 or 8.4 is only a couple hundred of years ;-)

Thanks for answering all my questions Mike!

Peace,
John H.

 

[RedEyeReef]

I had the same question on which stones. In my 2005 aquaticeco master catalog the only Ulta-fine diffusers I see are blue blocks with the white air stone in-set on the top?

 

[edgerat]

page 278 are the stones you guys need.... .30cfm each unless you are building a monster like Mike's.... and Mike's stones have been working for about a month and when I saw them a week ago they looked brand new....for whatever that is worth

 

[RedEyeReef]

page 278 are the stones you guys need.... .30cfm each unless you are building a monster like Mike's.... and Mike's stones have been working for about a month and when I saw them a week ago they looked brand new....for whatever that is worth

Thanks, I was hoping page 278, $11 better then $55 and less worry of cleaning them.

 

[mustangbobo]

http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/product.detail/iid/13480/cid/3799

Anyone see a huge upside down skimmer here?

 

[NaH2O]

Welcome to Reef Frontiers!!! Hope you enjoy the website!

No kidding - great call on the photo!

 

[rufio173]

That certainly is something worth checking out. Hehe. With a little modification, you might have a gigantic skimmer to play with...

Peace,
John H.

 

[mojoreef]

Hiya John
Issac has the right diffusors listed. On the filters I took the air intake line and put a tube on it and then ran it out the window and attached it to a air filter which is supposed to be between 100 and 75 micron filter. Its the hepa filter that comes in a shop vac :badgrin:

Also, the catalog states that "In clean, cold, soft water, cleaning may only be necessary every 2 or 3 years. In very hard water or water high in organics, it could be necessary as often as every 2 months." Also "clogging is most often due to calcium carbonate deposits (this plugging is prevalent in hard water and salt water)"

The tech friend of mine at aquatic eco told me that they should last a year prior to cleaning in the appplication I have them in if I ran the filter on it. I will be more then happy to get 6 months out of them.
As I have said prior this system is new to me and I dont have alot of experence with it as it is. For life spans of the stones I am relying on what the tech said, but like I said even half of that and I will be happy. I am also not sure of a few other things that everyone that is concidering this should take into account or at least give some thought to.

1.I am not sure if it is better to get a slightly larger air pump compared to the stones being used. ex. 1 cfm of stones and then a 1.5 cfm pump??
2. Would it be better to run 4 or 5 stones that add up to 1 cfm or just one??
3. would running a larger air pump allow longer stone life?? ex. if you had it running at a normal air flow rate (1 cfm) and after a few months the stones began to fade a bit, would having the ability to add moe air flush them, or wouold the extra air bring you back to normal air flow from the stones again.


any thoughts??


Mike

 

[RedEyeReef]

Great questions/observations Mike. I really like what you are doing here.

Personally I like more power in anything I do. It is like driving a sports car (or in my case a built 4x4). Sure I my truck goes well over a 100 mph (been there done that) and can out acelerate 95% of the cars on the road. Does that mean I drive fast all the time, No... well, rarely. Point is, having the extra power is good to have even if you don't use it. It is there if you need it.

Now in this case will the extra power ramming the particals into the air stones and make matters worse? I don't know. I agree, if these air stones last 6 months it is a win in my book. That is far less cleaning then current pumps for any type of skimmer (becketts, needle wheels).

Now how do I match PSI and CFM to my skimmer. For me I want 2 CFM running through my skimmer. How do I calcute the PSI from my 40" water column and from the Air Stones to know I am netting my goal of 2 CFM coming out of the stones? Any ideas here?

 

[rufio173]

Hey redeye,

I think you'll start running into problems if you are really going to try to push 120CFH through your skimmer if you are running your water level at 40". I mean, I think Mike has already found out that these stones produce a ridiculous amount of foam, so unless you are extending your skimmer another 3 feet or so, making your skimmer height over 76".... You might get some wet skimmate if your skimmer isn't tall enough. Of course you could always regulate the amount of air you are injecting.

What will be the diameter of the skimmer? I mean, 120SCFH translates to around 3200lph, most hobbyist skimmers don't even come close to that number. I think a lot of people with double becketts aren't even pushing anywhere close to that... I imagine a lot of people are at best only pushing around 2500lph through their current double beckett configurations.

Oh yeah, a question for Mike, how small are these bubbles? Are they smaller than the ones produced by becketts or the needlewheels you have observed?

Peace,
John H.