new to salt. pissing me off at the moment.

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Dave 777

Stingray guy
Joined
Nov 27, 2005
Messages
61
Location
Renton WA
Ok, so I'm just assuming I will lose the 3 fish I have left. No meds work. Changing the water seems to be not doing anything either. How long do you have to wait till I attempt to buy more fish. Sorry if I seem short, but I've done freshwater for years with great success. Thought I'd try salt. Did alot of research, bought good equipment, bought cool fish, now dead.

In a quarantine tank, do you watch the fish for signs of disease or just treat them for basics and then let them in the tank after a while.
 
in QT you observe the fish or other item and see if they get anything or have anything. IE: Ich, Red Bugs, Etc. Then you can treat if they do get a illiness or ?. I usually QT things for a min 4-6 weeks. There's no reason to treat something that isn't there.

What's wrong with the current fish you have? What's your water params?

Keep it up.. You'll get it, we have suffer our losses in the begining.

Remember nothing good happens in a reef tank fast.
 
Dave - why don't we start from the beginning, so we can figure out the best advice for you. Sorry you are experiencing some frustrations right now, but hopefully we can get you on the right track.

Tell us about your set-up. Tank size, water parameters, equipment, livestock list, livestock that was lost, how old the tank is, what order the fish were introduced and how long between introductions.
 
Sorry you're so frustrated. I provide some basic advice on almost all the things you've mentioned. After 35 years in the hobby, I've learned some 'secrets' I'm more than willing and able to pass along. These things should significantly reduce the stress on you and the stress of fish: http://www.reefland.com/forum/marin...reatment/19032-stress-single-marine-fish.html

1. Acclimation of newly acquired fishes is extremely important and the first step towards husbandry success: http://www.reefland.com/forum/marin...ment/19094-acclimation-i-know.html#post137198

2. The initial water quality acclimation is to a quarantine tank based on these references:Steven Pro’s article on quarantine
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.htm
and
http://www.reefland.com/forum/marin...-treatment/19255-fish-quarantine-process.html

3. I recommend that all newly acquired fishes be freshwater dipped (See: http://www.reefland.com/forum/marin...tment/18887-freshwater-dip-marine-fishes.html) and de-wormed.

4. I recommend the treatment of certain fishes newly acquired for certain diseases, since some fishes so often are infected with certain diseases it is worth treating them. See: above references.

Adding fish to your display is a slow process but if you can manage to be patient and follow conservative guidelines (the above or someone else's), the pay-off will be a grand collection! Good luck! :)

 
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Dave, First and foremost I am sorry to hear about your woe's but I must congratulate you on your use of and reluctance to give up on proper quarantine procedures. Most in your situation would have blamed this process as at least partially to blame and moved on from there. Very happy your sticking with it. :cool:

As far as your potential fish problems, the first best step is identifying the problem and trying to find a possible solution from there. A "gunshot" approach is rarely going to be effective and you can often do more harm than good. This is going to require a good amount of detailed information on your part.

About the fish itself (species, behavior etc)
, your procedures/tank maintenance (Water changes, feedings, food types used etc)
, water quality and chemistry (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph salinity temp etc)
, general set up (pumps, lights if any, decor etal...)
, tank mates if any,
symptoms the fish may be displaying (swimming, excessive gilling, spots, body texture, sores, redness and so on). Diagnosis is often a back and forth process of information so don't lose hope. The more information you provide, the faster the processs moves aalong so please do.

You will find that disease is not always the culprit in fish death so please do not limit your responses to just observations in that regard. As far as prophylactic treatments, lets leave that to the end of our discussion and focus strictly on the 3 remaining fish you have now and how they can be cared for. Once that's accomplished, we can go further in depth on other topics. ;)

Cheers
Steve
 
200 gallon tank (I like really big tanks. parameters change slower)
fish left:
3 inch big eyed squirrel fish. Just got him. hasn't eaten alot since I got him. He looks the best out of all the fish.
3 inch foxface. Eating all the time like crazy

4 inch lionfish. Ate frozen shrimp and silversides the day I put him in the tank. Didn't eat today. Feed twice a week usually with no hesitation to eat.

Lost fish:lion fish, sailfin tank, naso tang

Looks like ich. tiny white spots all over body.

Change 20% once a week.

Salinity today: 1.021

ammonia:.25 (changed water just before posting)
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate:0

Temp 76.5

Treated tank with Rid-x. Didn't seem to work because lost the saifin and lionfish. Now treating with Formalin. FOWLR no inverts.

Lighting: Coralife Aqualights across whole tank. Not doing corals, just to light the tank pretty much.

Sump 36x16x16 Little giant 4-mdqx
2 maxi jet 1200's in tank for more circulation
Running U/V sterilizer
Euroreef 8-3 skimmer (turned off with meds in tank, it was going crazy)
Have ozone hooked up but not on. still trying to filter effluent from skimmer effectively. Has never been on yet.

There you go!!
 
Forgot to mention. The sump is packed with live rock. Alot of large pieces in the tank as well. Not sure how much. just bought alot of it whenever I could before the fish were in. Let it sit for 5 weeks before adding fish when test levels were good.
 
Dave 777 said:
Looks like ich. tiny white spots all over body.
Look something like the photo's on this site?
http://petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/marineich.html

I think your biggest "hurdle" here is your are operating under certain misconceptions about disease prevention/cure and how to deal with it. Don't be put off by that staement though, you are not in the minority by any means. :cool:

If this is C. irritans (marine ich) as you seem to suspect, Formalin will not help you. In fact, I would remove that ASAP with several water changes and carbon. It may not be too late to save your biofilter as Formalin will destroy it completly. Rid-x/Rich-ick(ich), UV's, ozone and the like cannot effect a proper cure of this parasite consistantly if at all. At best what you end up with is "co existance" between the fish and the parasite.

Depending on how "infested" the remaining fish are, you might wish to use Cupramine (Seachem product) over hyposalinity but you must do so in a quarantine tank, not your main system.
http://petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/quarantinetanks.html

You mention a QT in your first post but I am unsure if you actually have one?
Dave 777 said:
In a quarantine tank, do you watch the fish for signs of disease or just treat them for basics and then let them in the tank after a while.
Or was this just a generalized question?

Once the fish are in the qt and treatment has begun, you will see a dramatic improvement rather quickly. You will need to monitor the copper level at least once daily along with water quality. Keep plenty of new SW handy for water chnages to keep water quality as high as possible. Once the treat ment is done (usually 14 days) the fish will need to remain in the QT while the main tank fallows for minimum 6 but preferabley 8 weeks.

Cheers
Steve
 
So I'm pretty much screwed. I was told formalin would not affect the biofilter. Who do I believe? Oh well....
 
I was told formalin would not affect the biofilter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formalin

This might sound smug but it's not meant to be. Trust the one that has the least to gain and information that you can verify. ;)

As for your current situation, all is not lost although it will require some work on your part. As I said earlier, remove the formalin. Since you have no QT, your next best option is hyposalinity. No medication should be used in the main display tank so this really is your last resort. Although it is by far the least preferable in terms of location (the treatment itself is excellent), I see no other option unless you set up the appropriate QT('s).
http://petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/hyposalinity.html

You really do need to get a quarantine facility set up for any wet additions made to your display system whether that be FO, FOWLR or reef. It makes no difference.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.php

A quarantine tank need not be anything special or permanent. As long as it is appropriately sized and "functional" for the necessary task. Rubbermaid tote, plexi tote, glass tank or even a brute bin. Please consider your options before you proceed. It's not as involved as you might think. :cool:

Cheers
Steve
 
trying to remove. put carbon bags by the intake on sump. How do you know when it is all out. skimmer is on now. have qt tank. what is best way to get a bio filter going asap? thanks.

RE: formalin advice. I called a friend who does salt and thats what he said. it wasn't an lfs trying to sell me crap.

I do notice that rid ich has formalin in it? whats up with that?

thanks

DAve
 
Take some water from the main display to help kick the bio-filter in. It won't be enough but it will provide some good bacteria. Are you using a HOB Poly filter? If so place the poly filter in your sump (in water flow area). this will help seed the filter.

Another thing to remeber when QT'ing.. Never share equipment between qt and the display. Nets, Filters, Temp Probes, Etc. Nothing. So if anything goes from display to QT it stays a QT piece of equip.
 
have qt tank. what is best way to get a bio filter going asap?
Transfer hard surface materials like floss, carbon (unmedicated), plastics etc. Water itself holds nothing useful in this regard. If you can get your hands on a HOB with a biowheel you'd be rock'n.


I do notice that rid ich has formalin in it? whats up with that?
Comes from the unfortunate crossover related to it's FW "cousin" if you will, Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. The marine version will be affected by Formalin marginally but it would require a rather high concentration in a short term bath. The result being a few less trophonts but that's it. The only similarities the two protazoans have is in their life cycle, the only common treatment is copper.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA006

Cheers
Steve
 
just over 3 months


james-I misunderstood you earlier. i thought you asked if I had a HOB on my main tank.
 
I have been slowly lowering the salt level. How slow is too slow or too fast?
Honestly I have to say the fish are looking better. I know they aren't out of the woods by any means, but the lionfish is more active than I've seen him for a few days. He actually ate a little bit today. the foxface still has the same amount of spots but the heavier breathing is going down and the squirrel fish still looks as good as he always has. Don't know if he has some super immune system or what but he seems unaffected.
I got my ozone going. Spent a few hours last night hooking up a carbon filter for the effluent on my skimmer and all is good. I really hope the fish make it.
 
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