Nitrates

[payge]

Anyone know the fastest safest way to lower Nitrates? they were reading quite high between 20-40ppm...I only feed them every other day..and only as much as they will eat in a few min...there aren't many fishes but they are piglets

Any help is appreciated

 

[Krish]

Big water changes using ro/di water will usually do the trick, but more info on your tank may be needed to figure out what is causing the high levels of nitrates (eg how old is the tank, type of sandbed and substrate, if using ro'di water, what salt mix are you using, type of fish and what type of foods you are feeding them etc) I hope you get it sorted out soon! Best of luck!

 

[wrightme43]

Krish has got you cover here. In addition to his questions. Do you have bio balls, wheels, bio bale or any thing advertised as bio whatever? If not do you use filter socks? How often to you change them out and clean them?

 

[payge]

OK..no ro/di water reg tap water with de-chlorinator stuff..and its Oceanic Salt mix which the more I read your forums the less Im liking it..damn LFS person..said it was the esiest cleanest mixing brand/mix..

We've got a Sump with the sock filter..and also a Filstar XP with reg filters on it carbon/pads..

No refugium all other stats on the test strip are normal/ideal..the test strip says "okay" range for 20/40ppm but seeing how 0 is "Ideal" 40 just seems sky rocketed

It's an 80g..the fish are 1x Valentini Puffer, 2x PJ cardinals, 1x "Red Scooter" Blenny, 1x sand sifting Star and 3 and a 1/2(thanks to Val not sure if 4th is alive has a hole in shell and now can't find shell :/) Hermit crabs-blue dwarf and a zebra legged one

The Substrate is Argonite Sand...umm 40lbs or so I think...there were 2 or 3 bags I can't remember..

Tank has been running about a Month maybe a lil more....Man freshwater was soo much simpler lol

Thanks for the help guys!!

One last thing...how do you all do water changes? DO you store up pre-made salt water in a large bucket/ can?? If so Just like a fresh garbage can?? like a 32gal can from Ace? Thanks again!!

 

[payge]

The sock has been changed/washed 2x now..they weren't terribly dirty but better too soon then too late right??

 

[wrightme43]

Ok Do you have a skimmer?
If so you can remove the filstar. Its not needed.
Wash the filter sock every other day, or order some new ones and run on for day, none for a day, then one, and then none. It works for me really well.
The tap water is your real problem.
Check this out.
Say you fill the tank with 100 gallons of water with 10 ppm nitrate from the tap. Then the tank runs for two weeks to get to 20 ppm nitrate.
You do a 50% water change with 10 ppm nitrate water, you have 15 ppm nitrate water. Then in two weeks its at 25 ppm nitrate, so you do another water change 50% with 10 ppm water. So you have 22.5 ppm water. Then in two weeks its at 32.5 ppm nitrate so you do another 50% with 10 ppm water. See where this is going? rodi is the way to go if you ask me.
A book titled Water Chemistry for the Marine Aquarium by John H. Tullock is very usefull.
Hang in there dont give up. Its actully easier to keep saltwater once you know how.

 

[payge]

Wow thanks any advice on an ro system?? Yeah the XP is in there now basically for the extra water movement from the outtake..as the sump return only seems to really affect the side of the tank its on..yes there is a skimmer on it..I forget the gph turnover but its supposed to be high..the guy at The Shark Reef uses it his tanks and says its near top of the line for our sized tank..

also the fishes get a lil Krill and mysis/brine shrimp..I cut the blocks in half and give 1/2 cube maybe less to them..they suck it down like nobody's business lol.they don't waste much..but the sand gets very dirty..a layer of brown sedament looking stuff..not sure if its just waste but their poo I think looks more like small wormy things...any idea if this can affect the water quality??

Thanks again

 

[liveforphysics]

This is just my personal experience, im sure others will dissagree.

Some people will tell you to try to make places for anerobic bacteria to live in the sand or rock. They are aiming for some N2 liberation through bacterial means. I personally dont think this is a good thing at all. If we were only adding nitrogenious compounds into the tank, then I might be a fan of this method, as it would compleate a cycle.

The reality is though, we definately arent just adding nitrogen compounds into the tank when we feed. If you use cheatomorphoria algae for your ONLY means of nutrient export, you have a way of storeing not only nitrogen compounds, then you have an ability to rapidly remove all of the compounds you are adding to the tank when you feed.

If you just wana kill off the nitrate, run a couple of 30ft legnths of 3/16" coils of black plastic tubeing siphoning from the upper tank to the sump. Place the tank side of the tubeing down low in the tank to try to prevent bubbles from entering it as best as possible.

After you have the tubes siphoning to the sump, hit the sand bed with a gravel vac or wipe down the insides of the filters (not required by starts the process much sooner) or other nh3/4 to no2 bacteria holding places.

This will cause bacteria to rapidly find its nitch inside the coils of tubeing. This filter can not break down nitrates unless the upper portion of the tube has areobic bacteria in it to use the O2 in the water as it produces nitrate. The nitrate is produced in the upper portion of the tube, while leaving the lower portion of the tube anerobic for converting the nitrate it created into nitrogen gas.

Just a couple of coils of tubeing at about $3 apeice (must be opaque tubeing so algae wont grow), Will rapidly drop nitrate level down from anything to about 5-10ppm. However, its no better than useing rock or a sand bed, so I would highly recomend going the cheato route.

 

[liveforphysics]

Hey wrighteme43, Gig harbor and seattle water straight out of the tap (at least when i tested) contained zero chlorimenes, undectable nitrates (on a salifert low range test), undectable phosphates. Something like 32 TDS straight out of the tap.

I think RoDi for gig harbor is a little silly personally. Its definately not related to the problem.

 

[payge]

Wow Im scatterbrained today..yes there is a skimmer it came with the sump setup..it prevents the 2nd glass pane "top" from being put on..is this ok? having one side open..also anyone with limited space have any ways to quiet the darn sump set-up? lol

 

[payge]

I just ran a test strip in the reg tap water its right at "Ideal"--0--Odd that they kinda zoomed up...theres only about 45lbs of live rock atm with 1 small rock of mushroom coral and a "pumping hand" xenia and now the tiny toadstool and "unknown" polyped coral--these two are soo tiny they costed 5 dollars a piece..pebble sized polyp one and maybe a 1-2 inch rock frag with a few toads on it..

Thanks for all the info guys

 

[liveforphysics]

You can stop by and pickup a generous portion of cheato from me for free. I also have a recomendation for this 4 pack of super cheap 23watt 2700k compact florecent spotlights they sell at homedepot.

My old fish only setup had a large porcupine puffer, large trigger, large wrase, large squirl fish, coral beauty, maroon clown, 3 lawnmower blennys, yellow tang, large engineering goby(to keep my sand from processing nitrates), 4 saltwater catfish and some other stuff im sure im forgetting. They were all in this 90gal tank with a thin layer of crushed coral. I fed them well. No skimmer, 0-5ppm nitrates, tap water for top off, occasional water changes. Just a large fuge at the bottom loaded with cheato and an old 400watt HPS that was a street lamp at some point in its life. The tank would occasionally have algea blooms, but nitrates were always 0-5ppm.

And I mean, I kept these fish plump all the time to try to avoid the trigger from eating the smaller fish.

Before I setup the cheato I was skimming and waterchanging all the time and things just kept getting worse.

 

[mojoreef]

Payge do you keep the socks in all the time??


liveforphysics how long have you been up and running??


Mike

 

[Krish]

Chaeto from what I understand is a good nutrient exporter and should be a great investment. I'm still curious as to know why your nitrates are so high though...Maybe this has something to do with it...

Previously posted by payge

Tank has been running about a Month maybe a lil more

Your tank is still young and cycling. You may be experiencing some major die-off from your rocks which will get better over time. With a newly setup tanks, it usually isn't the wisest thing to add a good number of fish within the first few weeks of cycling except maybe a damsel or two to help cycle the tank along. Some people even recommend not running any lighting as well. But definately, with a tank only a month old, it is quite possible it is a result of die-off from the rocks which is normal. Just curious, but have you tested your ammonia and nitrite (not nitrate) levels? HTH and best of luck!

 

[payge]

The sock is on 24/7...it came with 2 socks so when we washed one we put the other on..we were never told of on and off methods...

Do reg gravel vacs really help??

And are my rocks supposed to get a kinda whitish brown coating on em?? my one large Premium Fiji rock is a pretty purple while the other 35 lbs is basic foubdation Fiji rock...after the cycling/dying off it is still gettin a layer of silt almost on it..I think Valentini likes to poo up on his rock he sleeps on..

Could this film affect the reading/ quality?

We use a toothbrush-tank only-to clean the rocks...is this an ongoing upkeep?

Thanks!

 

[payge]

Nitrites are 0..right on the ideal range ph was right on at ideal/acceptable and the other pad was right at ideal..the green pad...*walks over and gets the test bottle* ....I use "5 tests in 1 strip-Quick Dip"

nitrites 0
KH-alkalinity-180ppm
Ph- 8.4
nitrates a pink between the 20ppm and 40ppm..more to the bright 40ppm still says "okay" for 20-40 and not unsafe til 80+ppm

but seeing as 0 is ideal and it was 0 for the first weeks....im thinking something is up...

 

[liveforphysics]

Mojo- That fish only tank was up for about a year and a half before I got into corals and only wanted reef safe fish.

Payge- The purpose of the gravel vaccuming was ONLY if you are going to setup a de-nitrification coil. You should really never gravel vac if your goal isnt to remove bacteria for some purpose, such as establishing a new colony somewhere else (like in the de-nitrification tube).

 

[liveforphysics]

I would actaully love to use your tank as an example for how effective cheato only nutrient export can be.

If you are willing to spend about 25$ on the home depot lighting for your sump, I will give you the cheato. Then you could just shut off the skimmer and post your results in a couple weeks. Make sure you dont make any efforts to clean the rock or anything, just let the cheato and organisms do there job.

If you wana try it out, Im excited to make this happen.

 

[payge]

as long as my fishes wouldnt mind then I'm for it as long as my hubby is we're always up for something new and effective we're hopin to have this tank for the long run

 

[Krish]

No skimmer!:shock: (LOL) If you have one...why not use it? Can't do any harm hey? Flow would be real important if you are only relying on chaeto IMO. If detritus is settling on your rocks in the main display tank, then it is going to cause a problem eventually I would think. Also, is chaeto really all that good? I mean, if it were so everyone would just use it and not worry about a skimmer. I believe macro etc play a very important and vital role in an aquarium, but IMO there is only so much it can do. But I am one who is open to pretty much anything and I'm a firm believer that if it works for you than "Rock on" I think that would be awesome to have a tank that chaeto took care of. I personally on the otherhand, like to get rid of the "crap" before it has a chance to breakdown and cause water quality issues which I do through weekly water changes, wet skimming etc. So I'd personally never go that route (i don't think LOL) But I think that is cool man that you ran your tank all that time without a skimmer and it kept the nitrates that low... Good job