With a 1" sandbed it will just be for looks. It takes several inches to create a anerobic zone that will cause denitrifying bacteria to start growing. w/ a 1" sandbed it is best to vacuume it out often to help w/ removing the accumulated detritus.
no more DSB for me
- Thread starter big t
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Witfull
Well-known member
dedicated maintainance is required for a SSB. if not it will have all the cons of a DSB without any of the pros. its possible that given enough time the very bottom will become anerobic when it clogs with gunk, but by that time, other prolems will have manifested.
Montanarocknreefer
New Sheriff In Town
I feel so much better now that I :
1. Don't have a tank(Soon to change though).
2. Will definatley be going BB when I set it up.
1. Don't have a tank(Soon to change though).
2. Will definatley be going BB when I set it up.
Scooterman
Well-known member
Johnny we can wait to see the basics, when you first put it on a stand, add water etc, I hope you can take lots of pictures :
johnmsb shallow sand beds are usually installed in People's tanks for aesthetic reasons. When using a shallow sand bed you need to realize that it will trap detritus/waste/access food. For this reason you will need to make sure that you maintain it by cleaning and siphoning out the above collecting material. If you do not maintain it well it will become a source of nutrient contamination in your tank. With a shallow sand bed you will get a good population of nitrifying bacteria, so you will be able to process ammonia down to nitrate, but I can't see any denitrification unless you are at least 2 inches deep. To be honest with you if you are looking for denitrification I would just go with a full deep sand bed, at least that way you have all larger sink area and this will extend the life span of the sand bed.
Here are some pros and cons on a shallow sand bed IMHO.
Pros:
aesthetically pleasing.
You get some form of nitrification.
Will help with creatures that require sand as a habitat.
Cons:
will not allow for proper lower flow that is required to keep detritus and so on suspended in the water column.
We'll trap detritus/waste/and organics unless constantly maintained.
You get no form of dentrification. And it will produce nitrates as a byproduct unless constantly maintained.
If properly maintained it operates under the same principle as the bare bottom tank with the exception that I'll cleaning and exporting must be done manually through stirring and siphoning, instead of good lower flow and skimmer exportation [automated].
Hope it helps
Mike
Here are some pros and cons on a shallow sand bed IMHO.
Pros:
aesthetically pleasing.
You get some form of nitrification.
Will help with creatures that require sand as a habitat.
Cons:
will not allow for proper lower flow that is required to keep detritus and so on suspended in the water column.
We'll trap detritus/waste/and organics unless constantly maintained.
You get no form of dentrification. And it will produce nitrates as a byproduct unless constantly maintained.
If properly maintained it operates under the same principle as the bare bottom tank with the exception that I'll cleaning and exporting must be done manually through stirring and siphoning, instead of good lower flow and skimmer exportation [automated].
Hope it helps
Mike
johnsmb
Active member
wow. That does help. I guess I was getting nitrification and de-nitrification mixed up. I do know the difference, but was just forgetting it for a minute there. So, I see that the sand would not help in lowering nitrates much.
I have never attempted to vacuum the sand - I just assumed it would all get sucked up. So, I guess I had better give that a try next time.
I still like the look of the sand and always plan to have at least some sand, but I guess if it is only for aesthetics - you really only need a shallow layer.
On a side note, while talking about de-nitrification, I have been amazed that my tank has been up for 6 months now and has never even showed a hint of nitrates. Is this normal in a reef tank? I figured I would see a trace of nitrates now and again. I thought my test kit was not working, so I tried the control and it definitely is working. It must be the high amount of liverock - that stuff is amazing. Beth.
I have never attempted to vacuum the sand - I just assumed it would all get sucked up. So, I guess I had better give that a try next time.
I still like the look of the sand and always plan to have at least some sand, but I guess if it is only for aesthetics - you really only need a shallow layer.
On a side note, while talking about de-nitrification, I have been amazed that my tank has been up for 6 months now and has never even showed a hint of nitrates. Is this normal in a reef tank? I figured I would see a trace of nitrates now and again. I thought my test kit was not working, so I tried the control and it definitely is working. It must be the high amount of liverock - that stuff is amazing. Beth.
John you don't really vacuum the sand what to do is to stir the sand with your hand or a tool and have the siphon a couple inches above it. The stirring will free up some of the detritus and organic out of the sand and then you can siphon it when it is floating just above the sand.
Yes John your live rock is taking care of all your nitrates for you. The only difference between live rock and a deep sand bed when it comes to nitrification and denitrification is that a deep sand bed can hold more bacteria.
Mike
Yes John your live rock is taking care of all your nitrates for you. The only difference between live rock and a deep sand bed when it comes to nitrification and denitrification is that a deep sand bed can hold more bacteria.
Mike
Scooterman
Well-known member
and to touch on all of this, I'm BB for almost 6 months now, & what Mike is saying is unbelievelibly true, it really makes life easier, I just purchased a diatom filter that I blow off rocks etc and vacuum at the same time.
Ed Hahn
Life is A Highway...
I went BB. I am hoping I did the right thing. I wanted to let you know that my branching anchor I was so proud of is slowly coming back, hundreds of little feather dusters coming out..more and more things each day...thanks for blessings previously. They helped.
DLONG
Active member
Speaking of moderate sand beds.
I've been running my current sand bed for over 7 years. 2-3" with absolutely no maintenance. No stirring, etc. I replace sand about once a year that has disolved, and that's about it. Never have had any hair algaes, and will get small 1 month cyno areas about every other year it seems.
Having said this, I will not be putting any new sand in now and just let it dissolve down further. The problem with tanks that were not set up for BB, is the flow patterns needed that Mojo talks about. No way to install sray bars at this point (without killing my self in the process). My prior reef (400gal) from about 8-12 years ago was run with a BB. I did alot of blasting and such and it worked fine. Even then, my flows were way inadequate and not setup right from the start.
I've been running my current sand bed for over 7 years. 2-3" with absolutely no maintenance. No stirring, etc. I replace sand about once a year that has disolved, and that's about it. Never have had any hair algaes, and will get small 1 month cyno areas about every other year it seems.
Having said this, I will not be putting any new sand in now and just let it dissolve down further. The problem with tanks that were not set up for BB, is the flow patterns needed that Mojo talks about. No way to install sray bars at this point (without killing my self in the process). My prior reef (400gal) from about 8-12 years ago was run with a BB. I did alot of blasting and such and it worked fine. Even then, my flows were way inadequate and not setup right from the start.
Hey Doug great to see you on the board, and I look forward to here about your tank and experence. Question for ya. How much sand do you figure you have to replace?? and what was your bioload like.
I have seen pics of dougs tank and it is one of the finest.
Mike
I have seen pics of dougs tank and it is one of the finest.
Mike
Ed Hahn
Life is A Highway...
My question about BB is... Do I need to buy more critters for bottom cleaning? I am in the process of ordering 100 golden astreas again. I am thinking I will probably need quite a few blue or red hermits to clean the denitrius off of bottom glass, Any Suggestions? How many Hermits should I get?
reedman
Well-known member
Ed, I think the idea is to up the flow on the bottom via a spray bar or high flow output to keep the detritus in suspension until the skimmer can take it out. The clean up crews are more for the rocks and glass.
-Reed
-Reed
Ed Hahn
Life is A Highway...
I had this picture of aligators in water waiting for something to fall from a bridge. I thought they would help out removing excess waste on bare bottom from my glass? I guess I was wrong?
reedman
Well-known member
Hey Ed,
I am definitely not saying that you are wrong. I just know that Mike is a huge proponent of very high flow and keeping detritus in suspension until it can be removed via the overflow to the skimmer and sump settle out area. There are certainly other successful ways of removing detritus from a tank. Perhaps the hermits will do the job for you. I know of several people that swear by them.
Keep us posted as to how it works. Maybe it will work better than the high flow plan.
-Reed
I am definitely not saying that you are wrong. I just know that Mike is a huge proponent of very high flow and keeping detritus in suspension until it can be removed via the overflow to the skimmer and sump settle out area. There are certainly other successful ways of removing detritus from a tank. Perhaps the hermits will do the job for you. I know of several people that swear by them.
Keep us posted as to how it works. Maybe it will work better than the high flow plan.
-Reed
Ed Hahn
Life is A Highway...
Reed,
I usually have a smile on my face. You did not or have never insulted me. I am here to learn. I appreciate your thoughts very much. I hear them. Thanks
Your Friend in Tri-cities
Ed
I usually have a smile on my face. You did not or have never insulted me. I am here to learn. I appreciate your thoughts very much. I hear them. Thanks
Your Friend in Tri-cities
Ed
reedman
Well-known member
Good, I sometimes come off sounding a little strong in my posts and I worry that I offend folks that don't know my personality. Glad you took the post the right way.
-Reed
-Reed
DLONG
Active member
Hi Mike,
<<Question for ya. How much sand do you figure you have to replace?? and what was your bioload like.
I have seen pics of dougs tank and it is one of the finest.>>
Thanks Mike,
but no, my tank is not in the same ball park as yours. Would love to come see your's some time to get some ideas.
When I replace sand, I usually dump one of those bags of fine sand in. Can't remember how many pounds they are, probably 30-40lbs. You probably have been over to my house if I recall. I usually have a reef meeting once a year (in Mill Creek). Although I haven't had one in a couple years . My reef is fairly packed for a 200 gal tank (and 70 gal sump). Most of the sps have grown very close together. I have lost a few colonies last month to my CoralVue lighting fiasco. So now I'm adding some frags again. Bout a dozen fish. 6 or so in the full tang size. Alot of live rock and feeding is moderate but not considered heavy compared to how some feed.
Doug
<<Question for ya. How much sand do you figure you have to replace?? and what was your bioload like.
I have seen pics of dougs tank and it is one of the finest.>>
Thanks Mike,
but no, my tank is not in the same ball park as yours. Would love to come see your's some time to get some ideas.
When I replace sand, I usually dump one of those bags of fine sand in. Can't remember how many pounds they are, probably 30-40lbs. You probably have been over to my house if I recall. I usually have a reef meeting once a year (in Mill Creek). Although I haven't had one in a couple years . My reef is fairly packed for a 200 gal tank (and 70 gal sump). Most of the sps have grown very close together. I have lost a few colonies last month to my CoralVue lighting fiasco. So now I'm adding some frags again. Bout a dozen fish. 6 or so in the full tang size. Alot of live rock and feeding is moderate but not considered heavy compared to how some feed.
Doug
