Not Enough Light or Food?

[rjarnold]

I run 4xT5 bulbs on my 40G breeder. These SPS frags are very close to the top, but have lightened since adding them. All have excellent polyp extension.

In particular:

The LE Setosa is doing well and has been growing fine, no color change.
The Teal Stag seems to have lightened just a tad.
ORA Chips Acro has lightened a bit.
Cali Tort has lightened a bit but has only been in the tank for 2 weeks, may lighten more.
Plum Crazy has lightened a little.
Purple plasma has lightened a lot and the green polyps are now whitish.

I don't really mind any of the changes much except for the Purple plasma. Without those brilliant green polyps it's just not nearly as flashy. My system is very low on nutrients (I run Elos Filtra M zeo). It was never meant for SPS but alas, things change, right? Anyways, the question is whether they have lightened because of not having strong enough light, or because I didn't feed the tank much and it was running zeo. Over the past week, I started trying to spot feed the corals Rods Food which I had on hand. Nothing seems to have changed but it hasn't been long either. Someone suggested the food issue, otherwise I would just have thought light.

Pictures:

Plum Crazy

ORA Chips

Teal Stag

 

[Red C Aquarium]

What watt are your T5's , maybe your at 2 watts per gallon.


ARSA - Rob

 

[rjarnold]

What watt are your T5's , maybe your at 2 watts per gallon.


ARSA - Rob

They are 39 watts, so almost 4 watts/gallon. The purple plasma has about 1/2 inch of water from the top, so it's very high up there! The lights are as low as they go for the Tek stand, about 4" from bulb to water.

 

[rjarnold]

Bulbs are only a few months old btw:
1 x 39W 12000K Aquablue Special T5 HO Fluorescent (ATI1003) by ATI
2 x 39W Blue Plus T5 HO Fluorescent (ATI1011) by ATI
1 x 39W 10000K AquaSun T5 HO Fluorescent (UVL0003) by UV Lighting

 

[greenmonkey51]

Any chance you have PO4 and NO3 numbers.

 

[kevinpo]

Hello,
The lighting is the issue and most likely it is more intense that where the corals came from. Move the corals you would like to darken lower in the tank. The change in color will take 7-14 days on average.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[trido]

I have to agree with kevin. Too much light, well more than the corals are used to. Raise the lights or lower the corals before its too late.

 

[returnofsid]

What lighting did these corals come from before you got them? How deep were they in that tank? I'd have to agree. T5HO puts out A LOT of light. More than a lot of people realize. I have some of those same corals about mid-way in my 75 and my 6 bulb T5 fixture is placed so the lights sit about 5" above the water. Those corals are keeping their color very well.

My Plum Crazy, Setosa and one Chips Acro sit about 12" from my lights.
I have another Chips Acro and Tort sitting about 14" below the lights.

 

[rjarnold]

Ok, moving them down was definitely not what I expected to hear! I will certainly give it a try though. As for PO4 and NO3 - no. I don't register any NO3 and my Elos kits read <0.01 for PO4. All of the SPS came from tanks with SPS so I figured I needed to put them up as close to the light as possible.

 

[rjarnold]

What lighting did these corals come from before you got them? How deep were they in that tank? I'd have to agree. T5HO puts out A LOT of light. More than a lot of people realize. I have some of those same corals about mid-way in my 75 and my 6 bulb T5 fixture is placed so the lights sit about 5" above the water. Those corals are keeping their color very well.

My Plum Crazy, Setosa and one Chips Acro sit about 12" from my lights.
I have another Chips Acro and Tort sitting about 14" below the lights.

Thanks! Totally unexpected - most people are surprised that I can even maintain moderate-high light sps under T5's, let alone a cali tort. They are all very healthy and having been growing well under the lights, just haven't maintained their dark, rich colors.

 

[returnofsid]

The term "SPS" doesn't necessarily mean they need extreme, high lighting. There are SPS that do great in moderate lighting. Most Montipora species will grow and thrive in moderate lighting. They will also grow and thrive in high light. However, if they've been in moderate lighting and are suddenly placed in high light, they'll usually have a problem acclimating. There are even some Acropora species that do well in lower than high light.

Because of all of this, it's important to know what type of lighting the corals are accustomed to and acclimate them to the lighting you have. Even SPS that have grown up in moderate lighting can thrive in high light, but still need to be acclimated to that lighting.

As an example, I have Orange Montipora cap. growing quite well under the high light of T5HO. As an experiment, I fragged some of this and placed it under 2X96 PC lighting. It's actually growing quite well. If I were to suddenly move this frag and put it under the T5s, it would most likely bleach out. Even though T5s are fairly new and not a lot of people have experience with them, they've quite high lighting. Having corals so close to the lights is probably bleaching them out pretty badly. In water under depths of 22-24", T5HO lighting, with appropriate reflectors, is every bit as intense as 250 watt MH lighting. Studies have even shown that a 6 bulb T5HO fixture puts out higher PAR ratings than a 2X250MH fixture, down to about 24" of water.

 

[jezzeaepi]

Ill be the lone dissenter and say that I doubt its the lights.

T5's have high light output, but there really is no comparrison to MH's in terms of intensity. Ive looked at tons of numbers and studies online, and the best comparrions Ive seen still have the best t5 set up(all 10k lights with individual relfectors), is still 20-30% behind MH. Rj is running mostly blue bulbs so his par wont be as high, and furthermore hes running a 4 bulb unit not a 6 bulb. Show me the study that puts T5's ahead of MH and Ill read it over and find the flaw.

I have seen corals lighten due to stress before. Are they currently growing at a noticeable rate? If they are growing well, and are still light, its defintly a nutrient issue IMO. I see pastel colored low nutrient tanks all the time, and they are still getting growth, and its certianly not their lights.

Peace,
Jesse

 

[rjarnold]

Ill be the lone dissenter and say that I doubt its the lights.

T5's have high light output, but there really is no comparrison to MH's in terms of intensity. Ive looked at tons of numbers and studies online, and the best comparrions Ive seen still have the best t5 set up(all 10k lights with individual relfectors), is still 20-30% behind MH. Rj is running mostly blue bulbs so his par wont be as high, and furthermore hes running a 4 bulb unit not a 6 bulb. Show me the study that puts T5's ahead of MH and Ill read it over and find the flaw.

I have seen corals lighten due to stress before. Are they currently growing at a noticeable rate? If they are growing well, and are still light, its defintly a nutrient issue IMO. I see pastel colored low nutrient tanks all the time, and they are still getting growth, and its certianly not their lights.

Peace,
Jesse

First - she, not he

Second - yes, nice growth, nice polyp extension.

I guess we'll find out if anything happens with the purple plasma that I just moved down.

 

[tike]

I run T-5 lighting and at first i had to start my sps near the bottom and gradually moved them up.

 

[kevinpo]

Just to be clear, metal halide lighting is more intense than T-5 HO but usually halide lighting is mounted 9-12" from the water surface while T-5's are 3-4" from the surface. The result brings the PAR readings much closer to halides. Another factor is that many people who use T-5 HO's know that they have less PAR so they tend to place the corals closer to the surface while halide users take placement less into consideration.

Changes in coral coloration can be from the coral adjusting to a new environment outside of lighting but on average lighting spectrum and intensity has the biggest impact on coloration and lighting/darkening IME.
For a period of 20 years I have never directly fed SPS corals but have always kept at least 1 fish with my corals. On average I have experienced 1" per month growth for established SPS corals.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[returnofsid]

Kevin, thank you for that clarification. When I was talking about "intensity" the term I meant to use was "PAR."

 

[rjarnold]

Ok, for a little more clarity - the Purple Plasma was bought at the Barrier Reef anniversary sale (Nov. 15) from their frag tank. They run MH's on them but I don't know what type, and I think they are a fair distance from the water. After bringing it home to my tank, I put the tip of it 1/2" from the top, lights 4" from the water level. The frag lost its brilliant color in about a week, but has been growing well with good polyp extension ever since, but no change back to the color it was. Out of all the Acros I have, this one lost the most color and is closest to the top.

After reading everyone's responses, I am inclined to believe that it is the light as well, and hopefully too much light rather than too little. The reason for this being that if it is a low nutrient problem, why would it still be growing? And if that's the case, why do zeo tanks strive for these very low nutrients and still get amazing color? I didn't feed the tank much before, but I still fed it some, and my skimmer takes hardly anything out. My inclinations can be wrong, of course, and I'm willing to accept whatever the problem might be.

The Purple Plasma was moved down about 6" last night, so now the tip of it is about 10.5" from the light source. I can move it down further if appropriate, but there aren't many more lower spaces around For comparison, I've left the Cali Tort and Plum Crazy where they are, approx. 2.5" from the top of the water, 6.5" from the light source.

 

[rjarnold]

A picture of the purple plasma (and surroundings!) taken today for future comparison:

FWIW - all the monti's were from someone else's tank and none of them ever lost any color, no matter how close or far away I put them from the light. I have no idea what that means in this context

 

[returnofsid]

Well, that information does help. I also purchased some SPS from Barrier Reef at the same sale, from the same tank. The corals I purchased were fairly low in their tank, one was about mid-level in their tank.

All of the corals are doing well in my tank, under 6X54 watt T5HO. All are Acropora species and ranging from mid-level up to about 7" below the surface. My lighting is 5"-6" above the surface.

 

[jezzeaepi]

After reading everyone's responses, I am inclined to believe that it is the light as well, and hopefully too much light rather than too little. The reason for this being that if it is a low nutrient problem, why would it still be growing? And if that's the case, why do zeo tanks strive for these very low nutrients and still get amazing color?

See this is where I disagree. I doubt your corals would be growing if they were recieving way too much light and being stressed. SPS get the majority of their energy from light, not nutrients in the water, so if the light was poor, they wouldnt be growing. Pale corals with good growth is a symptom of many zeovit systems, and like I said overlighting is not the issue for any of them. The idea of having "nutrients" in the system doesnt mean you have dectable nutrient levels, it means that you have enough life in there that is consuming, and popping so that there is only the most trace amount, but available all day. A "nutrient high" sps system should still have undetectable levels, but is fed frequently.

For exanple, I have a 125g with 8 fish. I feed 4+ frozen cubes twice a day every day(8+cubes a day). Most people would probably consider this a "lot" of nutrients to be adding every day, but my po4 and no3 are 0, and my corals are beautifull. I am getting good growth, and good coloration wether they are 2 inches from the surface, or at the bottom and Im using overdriven 250w MH's in lumenarc's.

As far as T5's go, I have researched them extensivley. During my last job I had several hours each day to search the various reef forums and I read every single t5 thread start to finish. I really dont care to link every single one of them, but none of them put t5 and MH on the same scale when comapred properly. Theres always a 20-40% drop in PAR. Ive even run my own tests using a spectrometer at UW to determine how much intensity and what spectrums degrade over time. I know how they preform, and I personally used a 5 bulb t5 unit over a 40g SPS tank for over a year. That having been said, overlighting was never an issue. My colors were amazing(seriously, ask Classclown how my corals looked when I brought them to his house)and I was getting .5inch growth a month. Corals at the top of the tank grew and colored up as well as those half way down, and my lights were mounted 2.5 inches from the surface.


I have seen corals take a while to color up before, and have sen them go brown or pale from being moved. Just give it time IMHO. I agree with everyone else that it is possible that in the particular instance of your purple plasma, being .5inch from the surface, that recieving "lots of light" is a contributing stress factor, but that doesnt explain the rest of your corals. T5 Par drops very quickly as you work your way downt he water column, so thers no way that the light is causing all of your corals to go pale. Sounds like a tank wide thing, not a particular instance(like your plasma).

If it were my tank, id do this:
Start monitoring your alk daily for about a week, measuring at the same time every day. IME alk instability/imbalance is the number one issue for SPS keepers. If your alk/calc regiment appears to be working fine with no swings from day to day, then add a fish and start feeding daily. You have to go slow with ramping up how much you add. Just use a food little at first, then work your way up to what appears to be a "meals" worth. This should keep your nutirent levels low and give your bacteria time to catch up. After a month or so you should notice a difference imo.

Peace,
Jesse