o2manyfish - Skimmer Comparison

[o2manyfish]

BK250 Smoking.... I would set all these skimmer on fire if I thought the heat would help keep the system warm... Damn cold out here this evening, and the heaters are not really keeping up.

Heinz -- Any idea how long a BK will burn for ? -- LOL J/K ----- Or am I

Dave B

 

[Heinz]

well, after all that you change your skimmer to a larger one then what was agreed on,

anyways, the BK 250 has a diameter of 10" the ap 902 is 12", at least thats what it says on your webside, skimmer diameter is a key point on skimmer performence,

thats the reason why an ER 12-2 will always outperform an ER 8-5,

i am wondering what you would say if madison would have changed to a bk 300 ?

btw dave and you doug picked the 850 as the right match for the 250 why the change now after weeks ?

ps, doug you keep comparing an ER 8-2 and an ap 600 with an bk 250 all the time but now when it comes down to it you are not putting your money where you mouth is,

i have nothing to worry, just trying to get a test thats worth watching,

Deltec vs Bubble King

 

[edgerat]

Am I the only one that is choking on the nearly 2k price tag on the two german skimmers??? sorry my wallet got in the way for a second LET THE SKIMBOWL BEGIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[bradreef]

wow this looks like a great discussion. I feel like I am at RC. RC does feel a little north west this month with Kevin's tank on the front page. welcome Southern California.

 

[Heinz]

from doug/deltec
as for the second part of your question, that is a bit more difficult to answer without potentially offending someone. i went to the Tropical Paradise, Marine Depot, and BK site to get some comparitive prices so i can compare like units. i decided that the best way to compare units is based on approximate gallons. here's what i found:
BK200 105-264g $1931 (based on today's euro-dollar price)
ER CS 8-3 175g $588
H&S 150-F2001 110-230g $545
Deltec AP600 130-200g $568

BK 250 210 - 528g

AP 850 270 - 400g

AP 902 480 - 660g

 

[Heinz]

also from doug/deltec
obviously, the BK is miles higher than anything else, but the other units are within $43 of each other

here is my point, you claimed that you can do the same thing as a BK with a way cheaper deltec, untill now, today you changed your mind how come? i thought you knew what a deltec can do

 

[big t]

Welcome to Reeffrontiers everyone! This should make for some interesting reading for sure

 

[invincible569]

Am I the only one that is choking on the nearly 2k price tag on the two german skimmers??? sorry my wallet got in the way for a second LET THE SKIMBOWL BEGIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I like that! SKIMBOWL!!

As I was saying in the other thread at RC which is no longer....

1. Should we have a popular vote on design/looks?
2. Vote on service/warranty.
3. Vote on Ease of use. Directions Included?

I feel that all of these factors contribute to the sale of a skimmer. It can be rated just like the Car and Driver magazines.

 

[LowCel]

Congrats Dave on finding a new home for the thread and thanks to all the mods for allowing it.

I just have one question. When will the lines on the skimmers be posted? I called my bookie in Vegas and he said he hasn't been informed for them yet.

Seriously though, I'm really looking forward to being able to follow this.

 

[cali_reef]

Dave B, Nice to see you are continuing the skimmer test. I like to know which of the skimmer is the best for the $, some of us can't afford a ~ $2k skimmer for our little tanks.

 

[NaH2O]

As I was saying in the other thread at RC which is no longer....

1. Should we have a popular vote on design/looks?
2. Vote on service/warranty.
3. Vote on Ease of use. Directions Included?

I feel that all of these factors contribute to the sale of a skimmer. It can be rated just like the Car and Driver magazines.

I think this is important as well, especially the last point. Euro-reef has changed the neck design on their skimmer, which I feel would make it easier to take on and off (I've always had to work extra hard taking the skimmer cup off of my ER). Regarding price of some of the skimmers....true, the cost of some are high, but the results of the test will help you determine....in the $XYZ price range - skimmer A is the best, in the $GHI price range - skimmer D is the best, etc. That way a hobbyist can decide for their budget, which skimmer will be a better choice, based on results. (to reiterate what cali_reef just said ).

 

[kevinpo]

IMO the average consumer is going to look at what the company literature says the skimmer is rated for by tank size (skimmer mfgs are notorious for over rating their skimmers or, hobbyists are notorious for overstocking ) then compare the price between skimmers. They are not going to care about pumps, diameter, etc. When customers come into my store they say I have a "X" size tank what skimmers do you offer for it and what is the price. So for me the most important information is:
Which skimmer performs as advertised for the lowest price.
I think most hobbyists want the best performance for the money and just want to buy a piece of equipment once not 3 times like most of us have done .

Just my .02
Kevin

 

[Ed Hahn]

I think this is cool. I am just concerned with people being fair and not impartial because they sell a certain type of skimmer. I read the thread on Reef Central. I am hoping this is a honest comparison. So bring on the Big Boys and lets compare.

by the way...I love Euro Reef. Go Euro Reef!

 

[mojoreef]

Being kind of a third party to this one and having no real ties to anyone I thought I would throw in a couple of cents

I don't think in this contest that price should really matter. Prices will change as time goes buy and better distributing is set up. That and their are ways of shopping for equipment, do it buy "bang for your buck" "the best unit out their" or the "the best for the cheapest".

On matching up skimmer models against each other. I don't think this should be done by price, air intake or size, Skimmer makers advertise their units by the size of the tank they can properly skim. Some folks exagerate some don't, so the manufactures live and die by their advertising. So I would say line them up by their average. So a skimmer that can handle a 300 to a 500 gallon tank would be 400??

For the grouping of skimmers to be used at the same time on the actual testing. I would say run the needle wheel units (passive) together and run the heavy pump units together (quantity).

Anyway just some thoughts from an outside impartical observer.


Mike

 

[Ger]

Keep in mind, this is a fun thing....

We have had these discussions on how to compare two skimmers before. It's very hard, if not impossible, to say this skimmer compares to this one. How are you going to match them? Similar MSRP, or air intake, or size (bigger is better?), or power consumption, or gallons rated for, etc., etc.? One skimmer may be better in one area but worse in another. When Dave and Madison report their findings everyone can make up their mind based on what's important to them. (I am sure we'll have good discussions coming up on that)

What Dave and Madison don't know, yet, is how we will make the final decision.......we'll fill the collection cup of the respective skimmers with beer and see who can finish it first.

 

[NaH2O]

Mike - I see what you are saying in regards to price, but I still think price range should be considered. Not in grouping the units, but for someone that has a strict budget, they will be able to look at the price ranges and see how a skimmer performs in a budgeted price range. I don't think price should be used for setting up the test, but as a component in a final write-up. Maybe I wasn't clear in my prior post, or I'm way off base.

 

[o2manyfish]

It's funny how people each see different things which are important to them for comparison.

For me one of the key factors is power consumption. My buddy XtremeAquatics.com / Carlos runs an 8' Tall Beckett Skimmer. And he has to run a 3/4hp pump to get it to really perform.

I for the past 2 years have been skimming my system with a lil Euro-Reef 8-2, I put an auto cup washing feature on it. And try to remember to wipe the riser tube down. But its quiet and clean, and roughly 100w.

I also had a brand new RK2 skimmer that had been sitting unused for year in my yard. So I hooked it up, along with the 1/5 hp 3.6 amp pump and ran it for about 3.5 weeks. I looked at what it skim it was producing, and found it producing no substantially different skimmate in color or quanity, and consuming a whopping 4.5 times the electrical.

The other thing that concerns me, but which I am not sure how to test is heat transferrance. For people running smaller systems the amount of heat some of these heaters produce could become an issue.

I am not sure how to test the heat transferrance issue - And would consider ideas.

Also since many of these skimmers consumer (at least say they do ) less than a 1amp draw. If anyone has any ideas as to how to accurately measure current draw please let me know.




Trying to respond to the concern of fairness to the skimmers... Well if you knew me that might alleviate some of your concerns. But with the exception of 1 or 2 of the 12 Skimmers named, I have spoken to or emailed with the company letting them know my intentions and what I was organizing. Surprisingly not one of companies has questioned the fairness issue or been at all wary about having their product involved.

Also please realize, that I do not claim to be a skimmer expert, I just happen to have a truly ideal tank situation to host this. I welcome everyone, hobbyist or manufacturer, to come by and help, watch, adjust. This is not some test happening behind closed doors, by some unknown lab, and just the final results will be shown.

Since I just got involved with Deltec in the last couple of months, had their been dark intentions, I could have not mentioned this till after the competition and then said - Hey I decided to work with Deltec. But things are on the up and up. I will happily respond to any issues, questions and openly invite people to provide their ideas and desires for things to try to learn from this.

I like the idea of assembling some type of a scoring system for the features of a skimmer. Simplicity, Efficiency, Size -- This is really important, Noise, Ease of cleaning cup, etc

While quality of skimming is priority clearly for the average hobbyist, being able to weigh overall performance vs some of these other criteria would be important. I mean let's face it, if a skimmer was only $300, kicked the feces out of all the other skimmers and was 3' around and 9' tall.......

Please keep making suggestions....


Dave B

 

[thetedinator]

I think the last several points demonstrate how difficult it will be to clearly declare a winner. Do you categorize a winner by the manufacturers claim? How do measure price-performance (skimate/dollar/hour LOL)? Are Dave and Madison are going to capture data points?

Yep, lots to discuss!

 

[GTR]

Glad to find the new hang-out and plan to follow the thread with interest even though I've already made my decision.
SteveU

 

[thetedinator]

What we need is for "Consumer's Reports" to include Reef Skimmer comparisions in their annual issue! LOL.