o2manyfish - Skimmer Comparison

[bobgoode]

I'm way off base.

Nikki, I'm guilty of that one too often :lol: This skimbowl is being conducted by top-notch individuals, therefore, OMG information will come out of these tests. Bob

 

[mojoreef]

Dave I here you on the fact that it is tough. that was why I thought it would be best to simplify the overall process. All the factors you mention or that have been mentioned play a part in an individuals choice when looking to buy one (price, availability, noise, size and so on). BUT do those things really pertain when looking at a bunch of simularly matched skimmers to see which one skimms the best??
I would say to go ahead and list all the options for folks but I dont think they pertain to the overall compitition.
Example: joe blows skimmer wins on price, noise, weight, air intake and size but skims nothing?? it still gets alot of points but doesnt really pertain.

I think if you keep it simple for the win, ( the things you listed in your first post) it would be best


just some thoughts


Mike

 

[o2manyfish]

One of the interesting things that came up in a conversation is Skimmers and Pod.

Adelaide, of Essential Live Feeds, (whom everyone should hit up to become an RF sponsor !!!) topped off my system with some pods a couple of weeks ago when she was down for the big Frag Swap.

My pod population is happily out of control now. But she is going to try to come down during some point, and try to see if different skimmer methods pull out different quantities of pods from the water column.... How about that for possibly another random factor to consider.

And to support Invinc, we will post only photos of the collected pods -- Not a Full POD Shot -- LOL

Dave B

 

[Ger]

What we need is for "Consumer's Reports" to include Reef Skimmer comparisions in their annual issue! LOL.

I trust Dave and Madison more...

 

[VegasMike]

I am more than happy to see all the familiar user names here. I wonder if JohnL and RC realize just where they may be headed?

I also think that Bob needs to change his username here to AgedSalt so that we know who we are making fun of, ha ha. :razz:

I am with Gary (Ger) on the trust issue. What would the Consumer reports guys think of skimmate?

Since everyone is throwing in their OPINIONS, I thought I would add mine.

What I would like to see is not a "who won" type of assesment, but rather a chart that rates all of the factors, quantity of skimmate, thickness of skimmate, ease of cleaning, ease of set-up, internal/external/either, ease of set-up and adjustment, set and forget quality, cost, accuracy of tank rating, power draw, etc. That way the user could truly select the attributes that are most important to them.

I know for a fact that the number one reason I just switched from my MR4 to my Deltec AP1003 was ease of cleaning/lack of constant adjustment. If it produces the same skimmate as the MR4 (i am hoping for an improvement) I will be happy as the skimmer appears to be set and forget and very easy to clean.

Oh yea, has anyone PM's GregT to tell him where he can find this thread? :badgrin:

I just love to stir the pot............

 

[invincible569]

And to support Invinc, we will post only photos of the collected pods -- Not a Full POD Shot -- LOL

Dave B

Hey now! This follows me where ever I go. Even my own local reef board. By the way, you should change your name to o2manycorals.

VegasMike, I also agree with you about making that chart.

 

[OUinLA]

First, RC does know about this thread. They are glad that the comparison is still going to happen.

As for the chart/results: Here's the way I understand it and I believe Dave feels the same way. When you run multiple skimmers on the same system (2 or more) then at some point the weaker skimmer will reach it's capacity to skim and the stronger skimmer will keep skimming. This is why we are making a tournament/playoff type bracket the you see in sports. The winner (or skimmer still skimming after the other 1 or 2 stop) will move on to the next round. Based on the understanding that the weaker skimmers will stop skimming it's safe to say that the skimmers still skimming are the stronger skimmers. Thus, they will move on into the 2nd/3rd rounds and face the winner of whatever skimmer advanced out of it's "pool".

The only drawback to this, is that by this system, we can't really give a good analysis of what each skimmer is doing, only the winners. If we ran each skimmer by itsself, then we could perhaps give more info about what each skimmer is doing, how long it's doing it, etc. I think it's really impossible to do a test that will make everyone happy but we will try and be detailed as possible. The positive about this method is that we will get to see which skimmers are better than others and we can then relate costs, and ease of use to their performance and the performance of other skimmers.

 

[edgerat]

All I was trying to say was I, like Kevin, try and buy the best the first time around in order to avoid spending money three or four times to get the best product I need for my system. My issue with the price goes to comparing a 1800dollar Bubble King against a 400 dollar MRC or the like. If the MRC skimmer comes with a half an inch of beating the BK but doesnt do it then I am going to spend my money on the MRC for sure but my concern is the 1800 dollar skimmers are going to whup everyone elses ass and that leaves us with top dollar skimmers declared the winner. I know that this is for fun and for hobby but I was just sort of taken aback by the price of the german products. I still think this is going to be a lot of fun and we are going to learn a lot from it but I am looking for value of the products as well as their performance. I dont want to make this contest about money though so I will get outta the way now hehe

 

[OUinLA]

edgerat, your points are very well taken and I agree with you. Maybe if these high dollar skimmers do win easily, Dave and I could take an extra week or two and compare the more affordable/common skimmers so that this comparison hopefully benefits everyone equally. Dave, what do you think?

 

[NaH2O]

OUinLA - good points. No matter how the test is set-up, it will be interesting to see which skimmers out perform others.

What would the Consumer reports guys think of skimmate?

Maybe they could sample it, sip it, and rate on taste. lol

 

[carpetride]

What we need is a skimmate dog, you know like a drug dog...except this one will sit when it finds the worst smelling crud. Not exactly scientific but...

 

[kevinpo]

The winner (or skimmer still skimming after the other 1 or 2 stop) will move on to the next round.

I like it! That way even if a top dollar skimmer moves up we will still know where the separation was and be able to evaluate/estimate where the other skimmer falls in relationship. For example if a skimmer falls out in the first round and another model three rounds later and they're at all close in price I think that would be a good indication. I'm sure there will be some grey areas where skimmers are very close but at least some valuable information will be available to the masses.

Regards,
Kevin

 

[Heinz]

On matching up skimmer models against each other. I don't think this should be done by price, air intake or size, Skimmer makers advertise their units by the size of the tank they can properly skim. Some folks exagerate some don't, so the manufactures live and die by their advertising. So I would say line them up by their average. So a skimmer that can handle a 300 to a 500 gallon tank would be 400??

Mike

thats how i see it too

get all skimmer at the same advertised rating, each company should stand behind their word,

after all most ppl buy a skimmer after the companys rating,

 

[Heinz]

I also think that Bob needs to change his username here to AgedSalt so that we know who we are making fun of, ha ha. :razz:

.........

agree, Bob are you holding out on us AGAIN ?

anybody knows bob's username ? and would like to out him ?

 

[Zephrant]

I'd like to see air flow, water flow and current draw for each skimmer. Power consumption is more important to some people than others.

The problem with a single-elimination tournament is that the second best skimmer might get paired with the best skimmer in the first run, and be out of the running from then on, even though it was second best of all tested. That is why sports tournaments use a double-elimination setup (and careful seeding). But that would double the amount of testing to do, so might not be reasonable.

The idea that one skimmer may shut down all others has some merit, but may be based on some assumptions:
- All the skimmers will pull out roughly the same "gunk"- If not then what each skimmer pulls out is a function of which one has gone before it, and which one it is paired against.
- The system is small enough and clean enough that a single skimmer can pull the entire system down to it's most pristine water state, all by it's self. If the system generates more waste than a single skimmer can process, then they will both happily run on it and neither will get "shut down" by the other one. Comparing skimmate might be the only way left to break this kind of a "tie".

With a system that size I would guess that waste is generated fast enough that it may not be possible to run them until one "shuts down".


Zeph

 

[mojoreef]

Hey Zeph could you just pour the skimate back out of the skimmer cups into the frag tank after each round?? I am not sure if Dave has this tank in line with his system, but if not, or if he could isolate it for a short period (while the test is running) it would work.



Mike

 

[Zephrant]

Hey Mike- That idea would work, but I was hoping that a "dry weight" of the skimmate could be taken, as a wet weight only measures how much water is in it, which is a function of how the skimmer is adjusted. That would require even more work though, and a scale accurate to the gram (fraction of an ounce).

Sorry Dave- Not trying to turn this in to a 5 year mission.

Zeph

 

[OUinLA]

The "test" tank is plumbed into his whole system. I understand what you mean about having the skimmers "seated" properly in the brackets so that hopefully the 2nd best skimmer isn't knocked out of round one and we don't know that it is the 2nd best skimmer. I am trying to make the brackets going off what I know about each skimmer. Example, in a basket ball tournament they have several different pools. In each pool the teams are ranked from 1-16 (or whatever). The #1 team then plays the #16 team. I hope that what I come up with is comparable to this. Ideally the way brackets work if everything works as it's supposed to, you end up with a #1 against a #2 for the final. Currently, I have 4 pools, each w/ 3 teams, I mean skimmers. Dave suggested that we run 3 skimmers at a time so doing it this way there would be 7 different events. I'm trying to seperate the skimmers so that we don't have #1 and #2 or #3 facing off in the first round. Granted, this could happen, so maybe we will have (for lack of a better term) a "loser's bracket", where we would pair off these skimmer against each other for a second chance. This would of course stretch out the testing period but we would get to see more skimmers against each other. I'm just throwing out ideas and it doesn't mean we will be able to carry all of them out, but maybe we can gain something and make it more beneficial.

 

[mojoreef]

One last thing. When you are finally get the testing rolling why dont you start another thread just for results, bracketing and so on. This way we can keep this thread going for the chatter and make the other just for informational purposes. Thay way a person doesnt have to wade through a 100 pages to see what is actually happening.

take care


MIke

 

[invincible569]

One last thing. When you are finally get the testing rolling why dont you start another thread just for results, bracketing and so on. This way we can keep this thread going for the chatter and make the other just for informational purposes. Thay way a person doesnt have to wade through a 100 pages to see what is actually happening.

take care


MIke

Then we need to make it so where others cant post on it. we should discuss it over here, then post over there when new facts come in.